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Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
I agree, I ultimately tend to treat them both as being simultaneously in both places in some way. It works especially well if we assume the double loop to be a Moebius.
Without wanting to appear elitist; individuals evolve at different rates. I get that AC was happily living in the Aeon of Horus, with occasional forays back into the Aeon of Osiris, if the more outrageous tales are to contain at least a kernel of truth. I also get that the Aeon of Osiris follows the Aeon of Isis, and in turn gives way to the Aeon of Horus (hurrah, because that's a cool Aeon). So I figure the transition between Aeons is not like an on/off switch, it's gradual, with peaks and troughs, of influence, during the transition. I feel in my own self deep stirrings of Horus-ian Will and yet have to function in a world of (seemingly) Osiris-ian energy and materiality. Bugger.

Anyway, that's how I see the whole Emperor/Star thing playing out. In meditations with those cards, and their duel roles, if you will, I've found being able to use them in both attributive-forms, that their purpose and power is enhanced. I even dare to wonder if this is not exactly what AC intended. ⊕
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I don't know if Crowley was actually living in the Aeon of Horus, exactly. He was the one to usher it in, certainly, but he was certainly a product of the Aeon of Osiris, was aware of his Thelemic shortcomings and expresses himself to the effect. He also used the symbolic language of the old Aeon in his teachings because he knew his students would themselves be products of that Aeon and would better understand him.

I see him more as a Moses-figure, arriving at the shore of the River Jordan but being unable to enter the Promised Land.
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I see him more as a Moses-figure, arriving at the shore of the River Jordan but being unable to enter the Promised Land.
He'd love that.
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Just to be clear, Seckler does switch the IV and XVII cards as per Crowley, but she also switches the attributions of the 32 Paths of Wisdom (These can be found tabulated in 777, table XIII.) and weaves it into her interpretation.

In my opinion switching the Path Intelligences is a step too far. Crowley envisioned a card swap, not a path swap. Correspondences that are clearly linked to a card should move with the card (astro signs, colours etc.), but path correspondences stay put and are reframed within the new interpretative matrix of the card.

Table XIII is one of those rare instances where the card swap makes no difference.
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Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
I see him more as a Moses-figure, arriving at the shore of the River Jordan but being unable to enter the Promised Land.
Moses never entered Zion. Crowley had to as part of his mission to take the next step.

(Zion) TzIVN = 156 = BABALON.

Only after Crowley made the crossing did he begin to examine the attribution of the path of Heh in the light of his own experience. Up till then this part of the 'map' was theoretical.
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Didn't know Sekler was a Jungian. This is an excellent and rich Thoth Tarot book based on ToL and Astrology, and goes well with the Duquett's "Understanding Thoth Tarot" book.
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Jung. Ugh.

Page five and I'm already lost in a house of mirrors. I just had to pull a card, didn't I.

But I did read the interview first and really enjoyed it. It got political, as in gender, right away. Sometimes I think I'm being petty, but it really is a universal issue I guess. Don't quiet understand what she means when she says women are positive on the spiritual plane, pg 324. I realize I jumped ahead, but if anyone gets there with any insights, I'd love to hear them.
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Don't quiet understand what she means when she says women are positive on the spiritual plane, pg 324. I realize I jumped ahead, but if anyone gets there with any insights, I'd love to hear them.
I suspect you've already come across this idea before while reading Dion Fortune. Take a look in her The Mystical Qabalah, chapter 16, section 28 to 30 (and possibly further on). But keep your B.S. detector handy. Sometimes Fortune stretches the analogy too far and starts talking drivel.
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Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
Just to be clear, Seckler does switch the IV and XVII cards as per Crowley, but she also switches the attributions of the 32 Paths of Wisdom (These can be found tabulated in 777, table XIII.) and weaves it into her interpretation.

In my opinion switching the Path Intelligences is a step too far. Crowley envisioned a card swap, not a path swap. Correspondences that are clearly linked to a card should move with the card (astro signs, colours etc.), but path correspondences stay put and are reframed within the new interpretative matrix of the card.

Table XIII is one of those rare instances where the card swap makes no difference.
Yes. Temple of the Golden Star doesn't sit very well, does it?
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Originally Posted by Always Wondering View Post
Yes. Temple of the Golden Star doesn't sit very well, does it?
The traditional intelligence of the fifteenth path of Heh is the Constituting Consciousness.
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The Constituting Consciousness. It constitutes the Substance of Creation in pure darkness. According to masters of contemplation, this is that darkness referred to in scripture, “and thick darkness its swaddling band.”
On this path something is being constituted and formed. But this shaping of the substance of pure creation takes place in thick darkness. To me this suggests a maternal and womb-like form of creation. The Star/Nuit sitting between the father and the son fits the bill perfectly in my opinion. This is birth of ones own Star.

I think Seckler tried to interpret the phrase "thick darkness" as the subconscious when she moved this intelligence to the 28th path. I can see some sense in this, but unfortunately the interpretation of the Natural Intelligence (the traditional correspondence of the 28th path) is very phallic and fits the Emperor like a hand in a glove.

The traditional intelligence of the twenty-eighth path is the Natural Consciousness.
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The Natural Consciousness. Through it is completed (or, perfected) the nature of all that exist beneath the sphere of the Sun.
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Originally Posted by James Eshelman
Because of the correspondence of the Hebrew letters to the Tarot, which is prevalent in the Western Mystery Tradition, it is valuable to look more closely at how this meaning evolved. Qabalists of a hundred years ago taught that the Twenty-eighth Path of Tzaddiy corresponds to Atu XVII, The Star, one of the preeminent female images of the Tarot. Within the Thelemic model, however, it is taught that this was an error; that Tzaddiy corresponds to Atu IV, The Emperor, arguably the chief symbol of paternity, among the Tarot trumps, and, by implication, of phallic authority. In this light, in examining the root, TBO (root of Natural), we find that its meaning is “to sink, to press into”! From this primary meaning, it came also to mean “to impress, to seal,” as with the pressing of a royal signet into malleable wax; and then, “to sink, to be dipped in or plunged in.” The phallic implications are inescapable! In the Rabbinic Hebrew of the Midrash period, the form TBO, teva’a, came to mean a coin or medal – something that had been pressed or impressed – and, finally, a substance which is to be shaped. In Modern Hebrew, the word for the “nature” or “character” of a thing is this same TBO, teva’a.

So the “nature” of this “Natural Consciousness” is, first, only partly the field of Nature in the sense of the material world and its phenomena. This it is – from the philosophical view that this is the waxen substance which has been imprinted, shaped, and molded by the phallic, paternal, impressing, sealing, “plunging in” mode of Consciousness represented by this letter Tzaddiy. But it is also the “nature” or “character” of a person or thing, the fundamental disposition or temperament of a person – again, probably viewed as that with which he or she has been imprinted or impressed. On the Tree of Life, this Twenty-eighth Path marks the impact of the fiery desire force of Netzach, the Hidden Consciousness, on the malleable, waxen, adaptive, receptive aspect of the psyche represented by Y’sod, the Pure Consciousness.
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