Thoth Study Group - The Lovers

[by zero]

In a weird way this closes an odd circle for me.

The story of Cain and Abel is one of the main plot lines of the brilliant film "Wax or the Discovery of Television Among the Bees",
which I once watched one night late on tv.

Because of the late hour and the film's capricious turns I was in kind of a half trance and kept hearing
"egg's mark" instead of "x mark" all along.

Having the connection of AUT reshaped out of OVA (AL 2,76) to Cain and Abel, this gets an extra twist:
ova is Latin for eggs.

[Craxiette]

To me, the Lovers card has a wider social dimension, in addition to the personal alchemical implications. It can be seen as a beautiful glyph of the oh-so-misunderstood concept of "Solidarity". (Eeek, communism! )

On top of the card is the aspect of competition and choice, symbolized by the "old school" dichotomy of Eve and Lillith. Love divides as much as it unites. The benefit of one is the loss of the other -eat or be eaten. The main card however pictures a more mature kind of choice of love -that of voluntary cooperation between free equals. The man and the woman participate in a voluntary union of love, without giving up any of their integrity of individuality -they remain unique and different from eachother within the marriage, they do not blend into restricted consensus clones, but blossom in their own uniqueness. This kind of harmonious union is only possible between equals, in the sense that we can recognize the equality of human value both in the beggar and the king without having to be like them.

From a broader perspective, the individuals can be seen to represent larger groups or societies, as well as different cultural groups (the couple has different skin color). In an increasingly international world, there is a great challenge to enrich our cultures by the integration with others, without that leading to spiritually empty monocultures and/or cultural imperialism by domination.

I especially like how the children of different colors convey the message that to be successful we need childish curiosity as well as the humility of recognizing that in the eyes of the other culture, we are ignorant as children. Also, the swords add that to join another in equal cooperation, we need to educate ourselves of the other -it's not just "peace and love" guys, we need "understanding" too!

The faceless hermit is the greater "individual" of society or humanity, who blesses this union as benefit for the greater whole. He is holding the moebius strip, a symbol that shows that the link between society and the individual goes both ways -individuals create the society and the society creates the individual, "as above, so below". Both aspects need to be balanced to be free, joined through the unifying "twist" in the moebius strip.

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Craxiette

On top of the card is the aspect of competition and choice, symbolized by the "old school" dichotomy of Eve and Lillith.

Old school? Or a simple necessity of existence? 0 = 2. Unity manifests in duality to make the experience of separate existence possible.

If there is a more mundane social dimension here it may be pointing out the mistake of favouring one side of the "the feminine" over the other. The "old school" was biased towards the nurturing mother, Eve, and demonized the sexualy powerful, Lillith. This preference spilled over into the shaping of our societies and placed strict limits on the behaviour of women. But the "old school" appears to be crumbling, and the Lillith aspect is beginning to reassert itself.

You can't love Eve and hate Lillith, because she is One Woman.

Originally Posted by Craxiette

Love divides as much as it unites. The benefit of one is the loss of the other -eat or be eaten.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. The benefit of one is the loss of the other? It might seem that way from the narrow perspective of individual existence. But from a wider perspective we're all a part of that moebius strip in front of the Hermit. We can't add to it, or take away from it. And any changes we may make are always subject to Adjustment.

[Craxiette]

Hello Aeon418,
I thought I was saying what you're saying...

"Old school" in the sense of having to choose between good and evil (God or Satan, Man or Woman, Eve or Lillith etc). To love one of them is to reject the other, there is no alternative to choose both. 0=2 means the opposite, you can't have one without the other, i.e. the "old school" monotheistic (Judeochristian?) view is an illusion.

I was describing the development from the old, limited way of thinking about love to the new, from an EITHER this or that choice, to a this AND that choice. Solidarity is the recognition that cooperation is an alternative/complementary to competition. However it is only possible, it is only cooperation (and not domination) if the mutual agreement is done between equals, who are not restricted by the bond between them, but allowed to express their unique Will in balance. Only then will there be synergistic effects or "transcendence". Parasitism is also a form of "cooperation" and an ok strategy for survival, but if we want to gain spiritual development beyond that of a tapeworm, mutualistic symbiosis is the way to go (no offence, tapeworms).

"Eat or be eaten" is a popular phrase used to describe competition in nature. As in religion, our views of nature are colored by what we project onto it. For a long time -and still, people think that "survival of the fittest" means a constant violent competition. This is true from a narrow and lower perspective, but evolutionary fitness can be about a lot more and in the end "what survives, survives" (I am what I am). Cooperation is simply a different form of competition and arises absolutely everywhere in nature (from cells, to bodies, to herds, to ecosystems). It is essential for life on earth to even be possible. I.e. "love is the law, love under will" is also a perfect description of evolutionary development within ecosystem dynamics.

I think it makes good sense for the "this OR that"/competition view of love to be left on the card, but in the background. There will always be levels of our experience which are still ruled by the more "primitive" or "limited" ways, as long as we are still living in a world with finite resources. But our main attention can shift towards the much more vast opportunities to expand our conciousness through solidarity with a greater whole -both when it comes to aspects within us and with other people.

Am I being more clear or just confusing things further?

[Craxiette]

Originally Posted by Aeon418

If there is a more mundane social dimension here it may be pointing out the mistake of favouring one side of the "the feminine" over the other. The "old school" was biased towards the nurturing mother, Eve, and demonized the sexualy powerful, Lillith. This preference spilled over into the shaping of our societies and placed strict limits on the behaviour of women. But the "old school" appears to be crumbling, and the Lillith aspect is beginning to reassert itself.

You can't love Eve and hate Lillith, because she is One Woman.

Yup, I've met Her...the Lillith aspect, and she was ANGRY. She would destroy anything in her way until recognized and loved for the very life force of Eve that she is. At least this was my experience. Having a pack of tarot cards at that point in my life might have helped me to realize this sooner. I'm sorry Lillith, I'm sorry Eve, I'm sorry Babalon...I love you (all)! <3

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Craxiette

To me, the Lovers card has a wider social dimension, in addition to the personal alchemical implications.

Personally I think the personal and trans-personal implications are intrinsically linked together. I think the social dimension is a kind of mirror for internal processes. Collective changes in consciousness inevitably get "played out" and manifested in the social sphere. Thus on an internal level the Lovers card can seen as the result of "right relationship" being established between the Ruach and Nephesh, while the resulting external manifestation will most likely be a readjustment of the interactive dynamic between the sexes. But this outer change is merely symbolic of the real inner change.

Originally Posted by Craxiette

The man and the woman participate in a voluntary union of love, without giving up any of their integrity of individuality -they remain unique and different from eachother within the marriage, they do not blend into restricted consensus clones, but blossom in their own uniqueness.

Can you add a little more to this. For some reason I see your couple getting married and then insisting on sleeping in separate beds, cooking their own meals, and leading their own isolated lives, all in the name of "integrity of individuality". Surely the original impulse behind any union is a desire to be changed and enriched by the mutual interplay that occurs during the meeting of opposites. But none of this is possible if the "walls of individual integrity" are so solidly fixed.

Originally Posted by Craxiette

The faceless hermit is the greater "individual" of society or humanity, who blesses this union as benefit for the greater whole.

The connection between the Hermit and society is interesting because the label of "individual" is an uncomfortable fit for both. We routinely view society as a kind autonomous entity, but there is nothing individual, in the ordinary sense, about it. Likewise the Hermit of the Third Order is not an individual, in the ordinary sense, due to his/her attaiment of Supernal consciousness.

Originally Posted by Craxiette

I was describing the development from the old, limited way of thinking about love to the new, from an EITHER this or that choice, to a this AND that choice.

Like the transition from Ruach/Intellect based conscious awareness to Neshamah/Supernal consciousness.

Even when the former is trancended it still exists and has it's uses. Hence the need to retain the "old school" images of Eve and Lillith. But the main body of the Lovers card now depicts the New Aeon progression of the opening up of the Next Step in unfoldment of human consciousness.

[Craxiette]

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Personally I think the personal and trans-personal implications are intrinsically linked together. I think the social dimension is a kind of mirror for internal processes.

Yes, they are linked, but not identical. Have you heard the expression "if you want a small enlightenment, go sit in a cave for seven years. If you want a great enlightenment, live with a woman (man) for seven years" ?

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Collective changes in consciousness inevitably get "played out" and manifested in the social sphere. Thus on an internal level the Lovers card can seen as the result of "right relationship" being established between the Ruach and Nephesh, while the resulting external manifestation will most likely be a readjustment of the interactive dynamic between the sexes.

...and vice versa, it goes both ways. We grow and develop internally from relationships (not just romantic or even just "nice" ones).

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Can you add a little more to this. For some reason I see your couple getting married and then insisting on sleeping in separate beds, cooking their own meals, and leading their own isolated lives, all in the name of "integrity of individuality".

This is because you are taking what I said to the other extreme. A balance is something in the middle, right?

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Surely the original impulse behind any union is a desire to be changed and enriched by the mutual interplay that occurs during the meeting of opposites. But none of this is possible if the "walls of individual integrity" are so solidly fixed.

Well this is exactly what I was trying to say, so no need to add what you already clarified . What I meant about integrity was that for a relationship to be for the mutual benefit of the involved, it must not compromise individuality. To meet one's opposite in mutual interplay should lead to a third, shared experience, not restrict into two "half-experiences". Many people with a weak or otherwise wounded sense of self use their partners and friends as crutches to make up for their own percieved faults. Instead of being liberated and enriched by the complementary aspect of the other, they become dependent on eachother. The result is they end up feeling the relationship is a prison. The point I was trying to make about "integrity", is that with a healthy portion of integrity, we do not have to choose between our desire for freedom and our desire for union with other people. We can have solidarity.

Originally Posted by Aeon418

The connection between the Hermit and society is interesting because the label of "individual" is an uncomfortable fit for both. We routinely view society as a kind autonomous entity, but there is nothing individual, in the ordinary sense, about it. Likewise the Hermit of the Third Order is not an individual, in the ordinary sense, due to his/her attaiment of Supernal consciousness.
Like the transition from Ruach/Intellect based conscious awareness to Neshamah/Supernal consciousness.

Interesting! Yes, I agree with you! In fact, any definition of "individual" as a solid, isolated phenomenon is false. As we know, everything is in flux and there is no boundary between "inner" and "outer", only partial and temporary barriers. For instance, we say "my body 20 years ago" when actually we don't share a single cell with the body that existed then. Not to mention our "Self", which is more like an ants' nest than a unit. It's actually quite amazing how the Ego-structure manages to feel so solid and continous, when it is actually just foam on the sea of our minds! Sorry, got a bit carried away there...

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Even when the former is trancended it still exists and has it's uses. Hence the need to retain the "old school" images of Eve and Lillith. But the main body of the Lovers card now depicts the New Aeon progression of the opening up of the Next Step in unfoldment of human consciousness.

Yup. The new layers complement and intergrate with the old. As in any natural system!

[Aeon418]

On the other hand, if I were to interpret the symbolism The Lovers card as the unity between individuals and society I would rather have the Hermit representing Natural Law. The Man and Woman I would interpret in an archetypal sense, with the Male (Point) representing the individual. And the Female (Circle) as the society, environment, etc.

[Craxiette]

Originally Posted by Aeon418

On the other hand, if I were to interpret the symbolism The Lovers card as the unity between individuals and society I would rather have the Hermit representing Natural Law. The Man and Woman I would interpret in an archetypal sense, with the Male (Point) representing the individual. And the Female (Circle) as the society, environment, etc.

Hmmm, yes, why not? I like that analogy. But of course it only works if we are able to set aside the context of their biological genders and realize that the archetypes are within (and without) all of us.

By the way what do you mean by "Natural Law"? Does that mean something different than the laws of nature?

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by Craxiette

Hmmm, yes, why not? I like that analogy. But of course it only works if we are able to set aside the context of their biological genders and realize that the archetypes are within (and without) all of us.

Exactly. That's the reason why I stressed the the archetypal angle. Although there are the obvious links to biological function, neither archetype is the sole provence of any gender.

It's like Love and War. The mind automatically associates a feminine image with one and a masculine image with the other. And yet both words are genderless. Even so there are biological connotations, but neither is exclusive to either gender. Men do love and women can war, even though the archetypal imagery is the other way around.

Originally Posted by Craxiette

By the way what do you mean by "Natural Law"? Does that mean something different than the laws of nature?

No, nothing different. It's that faceless and impartial mediating force that marries the two sides together, and at the same time balances the equation.