Thoth Study Group - Two of Wands

[CreativeFire]

As we also lost the previous thread on the Two of Wands, I have reposted it so we can get back into our discussion on this card.

To find other card threads in the Thoth Study Group you can go to the "sticky" thread at the top of the Thoth Forum or click here on the Thoth Study Group - Table of Contents.

Two of Wands - Dominion


From my notes from the 78 Week Study:

The Two of Wands in the Thoth is called "Dominion". In the image of this card there are what looks like tongues of flame / fire emanating from the centre of the two crossed wands, like there is energy and power and the wands have control over this energy source. However as the wands are crossed over in two different directions - one pointing one way and one another - it makes me think that they have to decide which way to go. Sort of a power struggle to decide which way to go to direct the energy in one direction before progress can be made. "Dominion" can mean sovereignty, control or supremacy. Gaining control over the energy to direct it in a positive way.

Remembering from the previous posts, the two wands are tibetan daggers, representing thunderbolts - not sure if I am remembering this correctly.

I have also been looking at the background of this card with its sort of 'speckled' appearance, which sort of looks like a showering of sparks or embers everywhere, almost like the spray around an erupting volcano or lava flow. Not that I have seen one of these up close of course! but more from pictures / films I have seen - any info or thoughts on this?

CreativeFire

PS. Have attached a pic of the card for easy reference.

[Centaur]

Originally posted by CreativeFire
The Two of Wands in the Thoth is called "Dominion". In the image of this card there are what looks like tongues of flame / fire emanating from the centre of the two crossed wands, like there is energy and power and the wands have control over this energy source. However as the wands are crossed over in two different directions - one pointing one way and one another - it makes me think that they have to decide which way to go. Sort of a power struggle to decide which way to go to direct the energy in one direction before progress can be made. "Dominion" can mean sovereignty, control or supremacy. Gaining control over the energy to direct it in a positive way.

I really like the way that you describe this. It is almost as though the Ace of Wands represents pure energy, whilst the 2 of Wands represents energy at the moment it finds direction, and the whilst the 3 of Wands perhaps represents that energy as it is applied? I think that perhaps 'Dominion' is too strong a word for this card... the very word implies negative connotation. Ziegler, in his book, Tarot: Mirror of the Soul, writes, 'The nature of 'dominion' is based on force'. A better expression would seem to be 'command', a state of concentration which enables one to tread new paths with courage. The drastic changes that necessarily follow are unable to throw the pioneer off balance'. I really like that; it would then seem that the card represented the focused concentration of energy in order to achieve a required end. Almost, the journey that energy takes before it is applied?

Does anyone have any further information on the nature of Chokmah on the Tree of Life? I know that it is very much related with the notion of wisdom.

In his book, Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Duquette writes, 'The Wands are demon-headed Tibetan Dorjes. Like the thunderbolts of Zeus, the Dorje represents the directed power of the gods, and serves as the instrument of divine destruction that must, of necessity, precede the creative cycle. 'The virgin ovum', Crowley claims, 'must be broken in order to fertilize it'. The six flames bursting behind the Dorjes alludes to the Sun, which is exalted in Aries and very happy to be there'. I think that this emphasises the whole notion of command... the intended direction of energy towards a specific end.

With regards to the background of the card, Ziegler writes, 'The background of the picture shows the union of fire and water, an alchemistic symbol for the unification of different aspects of our nature'.

[Moonudjat]

At the center it looks like the wands collectively work together to block and wield the flames but then work against each other on how to use the flames energy. Or maybe the flame is controlling the wands melding them together to try to support two conflicting forces.

Fire is the first element, representing the forces of creation and inspiration.
Water is the second element, representing the forces of change and mutation.
Are these to elements combining to create....
Air, the third element, representing the forces of reason and division?

Also i read somewhere that "The background of this card shows the power of the planet mars in his own sign Aries, the first of the Signs. It there represents Energy initiating a Current of Force"

Further...As stated above "Six flames issue from the center. This indicates the influence of the Sun, who is exalted in Aries." This is the creative Will.

I also read in The Book of Thoth "Mars in Aries is the attribution of the Geomantic Figure Puer. " I tried to find info on what Puer actually means anybody?

[TaranRavenfrost]

From dictionary.com:

Puer

\Pu"er\, n. [Etymol. uncertain.] The dung of dogs, used as an alkaline steep in tanning. --Simmonds.

Doesnt make sense to me. Any other definitions anyone knows of?

[Macavity]

Originally posted by TaranRavenfrost
[BDoesnt make sense to me. Any other definitions anyone knows of? [/B]

In this context, it's actually the name of a geomantic figure. See e.g.
http://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/geomancy/figures.html

[Rusty Neon]

Originally posted by Centaur
It is almost as though the Ace of Wands represents pure energy, whilst the 2 of Wands represents energy at the moment it finds direction, and whilst the 3 of Wands perhaps represents that energy as it is applied?

That's along the lines of how I intuitively see it. The Ace of Wands is the pure energy. The 2 of Wands is the energy in gestation/preparation before action. The 3 of Wands would be the exuberant, enthusiastic, sometimes immature energy, while the 4 of Wands would be the more mature, stable energy. And that's the way that I would interpret it for the Thoth and Marseilles decks.

However, for what it's worth, Crowley seems to see it a bit differently.

For Crowley, the Ace of Wands would be unmanifested energy or, in other words, the primordial seed of the energy; the 2 of Wands would be the energy in its purest manifested form; the 3 of Wands would be energy finding direction; and the 4 of Wands would represent that energy as it is applied. In effect, to Crowley, the step covered by the 4 of Wands corresponds to what were, in my intuitive view, the steps covered by the 3 and 4 of Wands.

Aces correspond to Kether. "The Aces represent the roots of the four elements. [...] The point to remember is that, both in their appearance and in their meaning, the Aces are not the elements themselves, but the seeds of those elements." (_Book of Thoth_, p. 177)

The Twos correspond to Chokmah. "From the point of view of the ordinary person, Chokmah is really No. 1 and not No. 2, because [it] is the first manifestation; Kether is completely concealed, so that nobody knows anything about it at all. Hence, only on reaching the Dueces does an element appear as the element itself. Chokmah is uncontaminated by any influence; therefore, the elements here appear in their original harmonious condition." (pages 177 to 178)

"The Two of Wands [...] represents the energy of fire; fire in its best and highest form." (p. 178)

In the Three of Wands, "[t]he idea of will and dominion has become interpreted in Character." (p.179) This ties in with Crowley's title for the Three of Wands: Virtue.

On the Fours: "The connnection between the number Four and the number Three is extremely complex. The important characteristic is that Four is "below the Abyss"; therefore, in practice, it means solidification, materialization. [...] In the Wands suit, the card is called Completion. The manifestation promised by Binah has now taken place. This number is very solid, because it is the actual dominating influence on all the following cards." (p. 179)

The Ace of Wands "represents the essence of the element of Fire in its inception." It is the primordial Energy of the Divine manifesting in Matter, at so early a stage that is not yet definitely formulated as Will." (p. 188)

On the Two of Wands: "This card, pertaining to Chokmah in the suit of Fire, represents the Will in its most exalted form. It is an ideal Will, independent of any given object." (p. 189)

[Centaur]

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
For Crowley, the Ace of Wands would be unmanifested energy or, in other words, the primordial seed of the energy; the 2 of Wands would be the energy in its purest manifested form; the 3 of Wands would be energy finding direction; and the 4 of Wands would represent that energy as it is applied. In effect, to Crowley, the step covered by the 4 of Wands corresponds to what were, in my intuitive view, the steps covered by the 3 and 4 of Wands.

Interesting stuff. So... the 4 of Wands would then represent the physical manifestation of that energy?

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
On the Fours: "The connnection between the number Four and the number Three is extremely complex. The important characteristic is that Four is "below the Abyss"; therefore, in practice, it means solidification, materialization. [...] In the Wands suit, the card is called Completion. The manifestation promised by Binah has now taken place. This number is very solid, because it is the actual dominating influence on all the following cards." (p. 179)

If I am reading this correctly, then it would answer my question above. Thus, the 4 of Wands, as perceived by Crowley, is the first physical manifestation of that energy. I read in Duquette's, Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot that the Ace, 2's, and 3's are almost a pure manifestation of their suit. So... if my thinking is correct then the Aces, 2's and 3's would constitute the formation of that energy, what follows being a physical manifestation of that energy. Again, interesting!

[isthmus nekoi]

Originally posted by TaranRavenfrost

Doesnt make sense to me. Any other definitions anyone knows of?

I think it's Latin for "boy". Girl is "puella". No clue what a geomantic boy is though.

[Moonudjat]

Originally posted by Macavity
In this context, it's actually the name of a geomantic figure. See e.g.
http://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/geomancy/figures.html

Hmm I looked at the site and it said that puer's element is Air. Maybe this pertains to what i said earlier about the Water Element and the Fire Element creating the Element Air? Thx for the site.

Also the planet it represents is Mars.

[isthmus nekoi]

btw, someone asked about Chokmah? Here's what Crowley says in BOT (117): "from the point of view of the oridinary person, Chokmah i s really No.1 and not No.2 b/c he is the first manifestation; Kether is completely concealed... Hence only on reaching the Deuces does an element appear as the element itself. Chokmah is uncontaminated by any influence; therefore the elements here appear in their original harmonious condition."