RWS Two of Cups Design--Startled?

[Cerulean]

The Jeu de Princess cards of both Lovers in this deck and the 2 of Cups design (link below) i looked familiar to me. It seems to me it is similar to the Rider Waite Smith design by Pamela Colman Smith.

First the RWS design:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/img/cu02.jpg

Description of Two of Cups meaning:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...UTF-8%26sa%3DN

The symbolic figure in between the two lovers in profile in the RWS seem to combine two of the elements of the designs below--check the Lovers above and two of cups just below:


http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Ma...s/cartoma.html

Also the eight of wands. Il Menghello notes it is just an Italian design circa 1800s. It is similar to the Jeu de Princesse cards at a French site and posted at Villa Revak...another low-cost version of this deck is Lo Scarabeo's Ancient Esoteric Tarots...Lo Scarabeo posts it as an Etteilla influenced design.

Perhaps it's just another suggestive link of how Etteilla influences showed up in later decks, including the RWS.

Does anyone have a Jeu de Princesse

[Parzival]

Impressive comparison. You are Tarot-link Magician. It seems that Waite replaced the flaming alchemical retort with the red lion and added the two friends . Obviously, this makes the image less abstract, more directly humanly emotive. The human beings face each other with nothing between them, since the lion is above.
I am beginning to see Tarot as a living process of re-imaginings, from Marseille to Etteilla, from Levi and Christian to Waite-Smith and Crowley-Harris, from Scapini and Place to Black and Marchetti , to refer to a few important contributions in my view. It's a fascinating continuity of truth and beauty, local and global.

[The 78th Fool]

I've attached a scan from Lo Scarabeo's reproduction of the Sola Busca Tarot. Have a look at this rendition of the three of Swords and you begin to see that Waite and Coleman Smith really did have a grip on their Tarot history. Have a look also at the Sola Busca 10 of Swords - Waite and Coleman Smith could possibly have adopted this design for their own 10 of Wands.

Chris. xx

[The 78th Fool]

Sola Busca - Ten of Swords

[Cerulean]

Sometimes I mentally block out the Sola Busca. Thank you for pointing this out....by the way, I had felt so grumpy to the Sola Busca last year, so hope you excuse the story below.

The great thing about this deck is it really doesn't matter if the later recoloring and added titles to the original black and white Sola Busca engravings makes this an odd duck. It's hard to place in terms of 15th century Ferarra trumps and tarocchi, but the guess is after 1470 because of its documented history. (The original deck and Sola Buscas have vanished). I read Giordano Berti's introduction to the Sola Busca several times and felt grumpy last year--here I thought I had found the missing link to many questions, and it was a red herring in terms of Ferrara.

I had tossed or traded my Sola Busca book and deck last year because after reading the introduction, I realized this deck was not helpful in tracing designs from my Ferarra studies. I was too serious and very rigid! I now have a replacement.

Later, I realized the point to most tarot fans is this might have inspired Pamela Colman Smith. Also, 19th century tarot followers weren't concerned as we are about the authenticity of very old designs. Maud Gunne had old Marseilles, Mrs. Yeats had a Swiss Marsiglia with a Hanged Man in profile, Yeats had a Dotti....*

Thanks again,

Cerulean

P.S. I find the History of the Occult Tarot by Dummett and Decker, Women of the Golden Dawn by Mary Greer and the collection that contains Yeats and the Tarot by Katherine Raines helpful. (link below--buy it used around 31.00). Katherine Raines book has actual pictures of at least five or six cards of the Milanese Tarocchino that Yeats used...and you can read a bit of his handwriting on Stella: "Hope".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...sim/aeclectic/

[Cerulean]

I'll explain why I say Yeat's tarot, as in his personal tarot he used, below. I was looking at the Dotti Tarocco Two of Cups in the small version and then finally pulled out the large version of the cards.

This two of cups has two angels facing each outer side of the card and in the middle, a bouquet of flowers. The design descends down to a bulls head. I'm searching for an online scan of the Two of Cups, enlarged, but right now have to describe it. Perhaps the decorative description suggests warm and amiable beginnings to you and reminds you of the Rider Waite design and meaning as well...it does to me!

Yeats owned the Dotti Tarocco, as per the discussion and samples by Kathleen Raines (Yeats, The Tarot and Golden Dawn) and Mary Greer (Women of the Golden Dawn).

The old Italian design, although simpler than the Di Gumppenbergs, is yielding other fun thoughts. But this was the Rider-Waitish-Smith-Yeatsy correlation that occurred to me...

Regards,

Cerulean Mari