Gay Tarot Study Group?

[telcontar]

Hi there.

As I'm completely faszinated by the Gay Tarot and I think it has it's very own symbolism, though Rider-Waite-based, I'd would like to start a study group on this one.

Who else thinks this is a good idea?

[Lee]

Well, I do, obviously!

I'll be an avid reader of this thread, and if anyone has specific questions of me, or if something jumps out at me that I'd like to address, then I'll post; other than that, usually I'll try to just sit back and not dominate the discussion. I will definitely be reading, though!

Thanks telcontar for starting this thread.

-- Lee

[telcontar]

Don't thank me, I did it for myself

And if we will be the only ones to discuss anything.

I would like to start on "Selfhatred" right away, but as my father will come in about ten minutes to fetch me for a family day off and tell me about the wonderful life I could have, if I did my PhD, I can't

Hope to do so tonight though.

[Aeric]

I've ordered Gay tarot and expect it to arrive in about a month. I'll keep an eye on this thread!

See my lastest post in the Gay Tarot thread in Decks for my opinion of Lee's Moon card.

[telcontar]

That post gave me the idea to start this thread, I think

At least, when I read it, I began to think there could be a demand for such a group...

[telcontar]

Originally posted by Glaucus

On the Interview page I also found your Moon card, which sent my jaw dropping and my eyes watering. If any card in particular has popped out so far, it's this one that speaks on so many levels, even having not read your LWB. It certainly evokes the thought of something splendidly romantic and sensual, but given the 'traditional' Moon meanings, it can certainly be more ominous. For one we don't know if this is a monogamous couple in love, a cheating man, or even a one-night stand, all very real possibilities. And all of them carry emotional and social responses running rampant in the gay community, like fidelity, fear of STIs, age and size favouritism, etc. It doesn't speak like a simple romantic love scene.

That's what gave me a new perspective on

XV Self-Hatred,

too. The different possibilities you mention. Self-Hatred is The Devil of the Gay Tarot: a young man, standing in a museum or gallery, looking at a picture of a happy family (mother, father, son, daughter and dog) in their garden. A sunny suburbean paradise. It's dark in the museum, the young man is alone and his whole posture speaks of tension. He's making a fist so had you expect the muscles in his arm to snap.

The title is telling a lot: the young man hates himself. But why? Because he will never take part in this kind of life? Maybe he has lost his own family, coming out. Maybe it is the loneliness of not being "normal" and straight. Maybe he's in love with a straight man who lives with such a family. You don't know from the picture alone.

But the position of the card is telling a lot, too: it's the devil and such is it about illusionary ties - is this family REALLY so happy? Certainly they have their own problems. That's all those Hollywood-Movies, ending with a wedding, when the troubles only start We see a man here, who's trying to follow an ideal that's not his own. But failing to recognize this he sees only his failure and not the goals he might reach by failing to reach this one.

These are some of my thoughts. And yours?

[Elentir]

I've been anxiously awaiting this Tarot deck for months now. I would love to participate in your discussion, once I have my hands on it!

I noticed your remark about your father saying "how wonderful your life would be if you finished your PhD." I wonder if your father and my father are mysterious identical twins or something. I dropped out (ran away, fled) from my PhD program after 5 years of dithering on my dissertation, and it took at least a year before my dad stopped hounding me. He even suggested I move back home (and away from my lover of 6 (now 12) years) so he could stand over my shoulder and make sure I wrote it (I'm not kidding).

I haven't seen an image of the Devil card you describe in another post, but it sounds awesome, and I can totally identify with your description of the image. I don't usually think of the Devil representing self-hatred (well, not exclusively), I usually think of it either as immoral, hedonistic, or self-destructive behavior. But obviously fear and hatred are at the center of them all.

I have seen the Moon card, however; it didn't occur to me to consider it as a potentially adulterous rendezvous; rather, to me it made me think of how sex can be mistaken for love and cloud one's judgment (cloudy judgment is my "standard" interpretation for the Moon). Sex can just send you into a dreamworld where reality vanishes and fantasy reigns. I never would have thought of the Moon in an erotic context, and this card strikes me as a great insight.

Well, that's a long enough post, don't you think? I suppose I should go back to working now....

[Flavio]

Here is another student-to-be as soon as the deck arrives this side of the world I'll follow up this thread in the meantime.

[telcontar]

The Devil / Self-Hatred

You interpret the Devil as hedonistic? How come? I've never seen a Devil-card with happy people on it. Apart from the people on the painting in Lees card and even they seem just happy and not really hedonistic... Care to elaborate?


The Moon:

I had already sometimes thought of The Moon as connected with sex. It is in the Rider Waite, too, I think: the animal (cancer?) coming out of the pond. I read this as libido sometimes. But I had a good start on connecting the planet moon with sex for the full moon has a horrible influence on me. Ahoooooooooooo...

The statement of clouded judgement and mistaking sex for love was quite interesting for me. I hadn't seen it this way. I will look out for that when the card comes my way!

[Sulis]

You interpret the Devil as hedonistic? How come? I've never seen a Devil-card with happy people on it. Apart from the people on the painting in Lees card and even they seem just happy and not really hedonistic... Care to elaborate?

I don't really want to butt in here but this discussion is very interesting

I often see the Devil card as meaning hedonism or even a warning not to take things too seriously. In many decks the Devil is represented by the pagan god Pan - I think the Thoth deck uses him - Pan is lustful, hedonistic, fun loving - maybe a little too much - hence the warning of becoming attatched to negative thought or behaviour patterns such as addictions etc.

Just a few random thoughts

Love

Sulis xx