[telcontar]

The Sages are the Kings of the Gay Tarot. And the Sage of Cups is an especially unusual Court Card, as it displays not only the Sage himself but also two other people: he's the referee of a boxing match. He's keeping the competitors at arms length, maintaining his calm when the two look like wild animals, ready to charge. You can see a scan of it here:

http://www.tarotgarden.com/library/i...aycupssage.gif

I see this guy not so much as the traditional King of Cups but more as something between Temperance and Strength. I haven't sorted out how I can connect this with the Cups' emotions.

I'd like to hear how you perceive this card.

[The 78th Fool]

I've always seen the traditional King of Cups as representing someone who has attained emotional maturity and has the capacity to love unconditionally. I can really relate to the Sage as a referee as this role requires fairness and objectivity - two of the key qualities required if someone is to be mature enough to show 'tough love'. Loving maturely and unconditionally often requires you to act firmly and decisively whilst having the strength to pay no attention to your own need for approval.

Chris. xx

[telcontar]

Ah, that makes sense! I saw only a part of this when I perceived the King of Cups as "separated" from his emotions (the RW- image where he is not touching the water)- he's not separated, he's beyond it somehow, "over" it... Has some distance and the wider horizon connected with this.

-It's great to discuss the cards that way! I learn a whole lot from it. Thanks, Chris!

[Lee]

This picture may have been influenced by a meaning I once read in a book for the King of Cups as being a mediator. I just went and tried to find which book it was, and now of course I can't.

-- Lee

[Elentir]

I very much like this interpretation of the king of cups, I think it helps explain a lot. For me, the Queen of Cups is the quintessential court card for the suit of cups (because in general the suit of cups is so closely linked to the feminine), so that I've often had a hard time interpreting the king. Seeing him as a mediator makes a lot of sense to me, in that it gets across the sense of authority and power that I generally associate with the kings.

This interpretation of the king of cups makes a nice compliment to the King of Swords, who is in many ways also a mediator (as in judge or decision maker), but whereas the King of Swords mediates between differing opinions, points of view, or even differing versions of "the truth," the King of Cups mediates between differing feelings and desires. The King of Swords would be great in a business dispute, but the King of Cups would be better for a divorce dispute.

This has made me reconsider the ways I differentiate between the kings and queens of the tarot court. I think queens are more associated with teaching and nurturing (as it relates to their particular suit), whereas kings are more concerned with making decisions and mediating between different courses of action. So the Queen of Pentacles teaches us what is valuable, but the King of Pentacles makes business decisions. The Queen of Swords teaches us about right and wrong, but the King of Swords makes judgments. Does this work for anyone else, or am I being too narrow in my application?

[telcontar]

I see him not only as mediator between people and feelings now, that I see him as a mediator at all but even more as a mediator between people and their feelings (and himself and his feelings) and the world around. He gives feelings some grounding and the conscious base they can act on, I think.

As seeing queens as teaching and kings not, I think that's maybe really a little narrow, Elentir, but I think you maybe just didn't tell us all you think, afraid of another really long post - I think they both Kings and Queens have the same lesson to teach, that of their suit, but they do it by different means. The Queen teaches us by her example, we see the way she is and follow her there. She may even explain it, but she's the principle itself we may follow or not. The King demands obedience to his laws and enforces it, if necessary. He teaches more from the book, more from his brain. He's the worldly ambassador of Hierophant and Emperor where the Queen brings Empress and High Priestess into our world, to some extent.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Your comparison of King of Cups vs. King of Sowrds makes me post that one next, it's too good

[Little Baron]

I like those last comments about him being a mediator between his own feelings and himself (his actions?). That makes sense to me - having the wisdom of experience that reminds him not to charge in emotionally and sit back and think about something before acting.

Initially, I didn't see him as a referee in the cards picture. I saw him as a father trying to help his two sons from battling. A parent.

Yabs

[Lee]

Originally posted by Yaboot
Initially, I didn't see him as a referee in the cards picture. I saw him as a father trying to help his two sons from battling. A parent.

This certainly fits in with what I had in mind to start out with, which is a person who is good at mediating disputes between people or counseling those who have problems relating.

I just found the book where I cribbed the idea of the King of Cups as mediator! It's the Mythic Tarot. Sharman-Burke and Greene say:

"Orpheus, the King of Cups, is an image of the wounded healer, the figure who through compassion and empathy can heal others yet who cannot heal his own hurt in the realm of the heart. In many ways he is the ancient equivalent of many modern social workers and psychotherapists -- the individual who longs to be in touch with the world of feeling, and tries constantly to help others to relate, yet who sometimes lacks trust in his or her own personal life and therefore cannot ultimately achieve the fulfilling relationship which is so desired."

So, perhaps the boxing match can be seen as a metaphor for two lovers (or two friends for that matter) relating, and the referee as the counselor who keeps the game from becoming too violent. And perhaps, as in the Mythic Tarot, the referee is good at his counseling and mediating but cannot for whatever reason enter the ring himself as a participant, perhaps because he fears the rough-and-tumble of relationships...

-- Lee

[tarotbear]

However, the King of Cups bounces up and down on the sea of emotions and never lets you know what he is thinking - is he worried? Will he sink? Are things going right or wrong? You just don't know because he is good at controlling his emotions while the seas about him churn.

A referee has to provide a fair fight, regardless of what he thinks of the contenders or which one he might favor. He is there to maintain the rules and make sure no one is bending the rules or ignoring them. Sometimes he has to get in there and push the boxers apart. He has to do all this with a persona of professionalism, since the entire crowd is also watching him.

LWB:"Emotional maturity", but I like the concept of 'mediator,' too. In fact, I like that idea a lot.

[VisionQuest]

Originally Posted by telcontar

I see him not only as mediator between people and feelings now, that I see him as a mediator at all but even more as a mediator between people and their feelings (and himself and his feelings) and the world around. He gives feelings some grounding and the conscious base they can act on, I think.

I just had the Sage of Cups appear in a reading, and as usual, I didn't understand how the card fit at all. So I came on here, and this comment by Telcontar really helped me see this card in a new way that I can work with.
(at least in this particular spread, but I'm hoping from now on as well, lol)
Especially the "mediator between himself and his feelings" part.

Thanks