Daughters of the Moon aka DOM-Hierarchy and the Five Suits

WhiteRaven

Moving right along so we can get to the individual cards themselves...we should also discuss the Hierarchy of this deck...to, of course, understand it better from the authors point of view.

So there you go...jump in and splash around awhile on this topic...
 

Ace

WhiteRaven said:
Moving right along so we can get to the individual cards themselves...we should also discuss the Hierarchy of this deck...to, of course, understand it better from the authors point of view.

Again, Quoted from the Daughters of the Moon by Ffiona Morgan...
(oh ya know I gotta luv ya FantasyWorld! ;) )

The author goes on to say..."I have also redistributed troubled energies throughout the arcan, as I felt the air suit was overloaded with unfortunate circumstances. Now, all the fives represent troubled matter in it's particular element. The Earthquake is the 5 of Pentacles, The Storm is 5 of Cups, The Volcano the 5 of Flames and The Hurricane is the 5 of Blades. The former arcana of Swords is now named "Blades" and includes sickles, labrys, knives, wings and other cutting or air symbols. The traditional Wands suit now appears as Flames and expresses various forms of fire."[/I]

She has in affect, created a 78 card (give or take a few, I am not sure of the exact total anymore!) oracle set somewhat like a tarot deck, but very different too. I always saw swords as Worries from Ace and 2 as small stuff to 9 and 10 as big worries. Now she has all suites having their ups and downs. I am glad to study this deck, but comparisons to other tarots will be just about impossible in most cases.
 

WhiteRaven

Ace said:
She has in affect, created a 78 card (give or take a few, I am not sure of the exact total anymore!) oracle set somewhat like a tarot deck, but very different too. I always saw swords as Worries from Ace and 2 as small stuff to 9 and 10 as big worries. Now she has all suites having their ups and downs. I am glad to study this deck, but comparisons to other tarots will be just about impossible in most cases.


Yes but the author does not see it as an Oracle deck. She specifically refers to it as Tarot.
 

WhiteRaven

WhiteRaven said:
"Hierarchy thrives in an atomosphere of duality and opposition. If we are part of a cycle or circle, we are connected to each other, but if one of us is "higher" than the other, we are separated.

This is very true and I agree with the author in regards to the "higher" and being seperated this way. This reminds me of a Wiccan song called "Spirit Flow Chant (We Are A Circle Moving)"

Just a small "chant" when a circles is raising energy. Goes like this:

"We are a Circle moving one with another

We are moving together, we are one.

I am spirit and I flow in you.

You are spirit and you flow in me."

It's also used as a reclaiming song....anywaysssss :)
I told you I would come back and put my two cents in...


This Tarot deck has been totally revamped. It singles itself out as a "feminine" Tarot and it is basically impossible for one to do a reading with this deck for a man. I wouldn't even want to try and tackle that.

FantasyWorld...what is your take so far my dear fellow Wiccan?
 

Ace

WhiteRaven said:
This Tarot deck has been totally revamped. It singles itself out as a "feminine" Tarot and it is basically impossible for one to do a reading with this deck for a man. I wouldn't even want to try and tackle that.

Probably you are right, but I never say never. I just would have to come up with the right question/circumstances for doing it. I am NOT arguing for arguments sake, I really wonder if the right circumstance or question could make a difference..... we will see! study on!
 

WhiteRaven

Ace said:
Probably you are right, but I never say never. I just would have to come up with the right question/circumstances for doing it. I am NOT arguing for arguments sake, I really wonder if the right circumstance or question could make a difference..... we will see! study on!

POSSIBLY It would work for a gay couple. Pending on the makeup of the said couple. There are often gay couple where you find one leans more to the femine side and the other holds the masculine. I don't know if you've ever seen the "Birdcage" with Robin Willams...this would be a good example of what I am saying.

This wouldn't work for some women even. Even some Lesbian couples have one that leans to the masculine side...not always...but there are some.
 

FantasyWorld

WhiteRaven said:
This is very true and I agree with the author in regards to the "higher" and being seperated this way. This reminds me of a Wiccan song called "Spirit Flow Chant (We Are A Circle Moving)"

Just a small "chant" when a circles is raising energy. Goes like this:

"We are a Circle moving one with another

We are moving together, we are one.

I am spirit and I flow in you.

You are spirit and you flow in me."

It's also used as a reclaiming song....anywaysssss :)
I told you I would come back and put my two cents in...


This Tarot deck has been totally revamped. It singles itself out as a "feminine" Tarot and it is basically impossible for one to do a reading with this deck for a man. I wouldn't even want to try and tackle that.

FantasyWorld...what is your take so far my dear fellow Wiccan?
I think this deck would work well for a gay couple and possibly a gay man.
That higher than the other or your seperated is interesting. I'll have to go back and re-read what else you had typed about that. I have some catching up to do with this post and my brain isn't functioning right now. I'll catch up in the morning my dear hard working fellow Wiccan and Cappy, typing your fingers to the bone...Luv ya back:OL
 

WhiteRaven

Ace said:
She has in affect, created a 78 card (give or take a few, I am not sure of the exact total anymore!) oracle set somewhat like a tarot deck, but very different too. I always saw swords as Worries from Ace and 2 as small stuff to 9 and 10 as big worries. Now she has all suites having their ups and downs. I am glad to study this deck, but comparisons to other tarots will be just about impossible in most cases.


I counted 75 with the two Lovers...hmmmm
 

WhiteRaven

I'm going to pause here so FantasyWorld can get caught up. I would like her to have the chance to put her two cents worth in as well.

ACE: Pull out The Dreamer card and study the image for a bit..this is The Fool and it's the next thread that will be posted.

I've invited RedMaple to join us. I'm hoping anyone will pop into these threads that have some input to add. Seeing I am basically posting the book itself, people that don't have the deck can still participate I would think...it is a very controversial deck and would bring up interesting debate on a few issues.

Everyone is invited to join in... :)
 

RedMaple

Why is An All-Woman Deck Such a Problem?

I find it interesting, and kind of weird, that so many women are having trouble with this deck. For me, it is definitely a Tarot. The fifth suit being Aether, is simply a way of acknowledging the fifth element and the terms Major and Minor Arcana are not so very old anyway.

Being able to see the archetypes as manifesting as female is an important step in reclaiming feminine power. That so many on this thread are resistant to that seems to me a real backlash to the important work done by women in the 60's, 70's, and 80's in this regard. The very fact that so many young women regard the word "feminist" as anti-male is frightening to me, when in fact, feminism was anti-patriarchal, that is, against male privilege, and a society based on values that were perceived and constructed as male.

It's interesting that at least one person says "she is not arguing for argument's sake" - maybe that is an unconscious recognition that on some level, she is arguing for exactly that reason.

The differences you refer to in the deck are no greater than those in many other decks. I have several decks, including the Haindl, the Legend, the Buddha, that all require extensive study to take in the images, symbols and story each draws on.

I think that what you are objecting to is a deck that does not reflect Pagan Orthodoxy, a phrase that I hoped I would never have to say. Orthodoxy means that there is a set belief system that must be accepted or you are out of the club. For Dianics to say they are Pagan, and yet not accept the kind of dualism set up by a god/goddess theology is against that orthodoxy.

I personally don't have a problem with that. I think any kind of fundamentalism is wrong, whether it's Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Pagan.

I think you have to allow the deck room to breathe in its own world. If you don't agree with it philosophically, just say so. I personally feel that way about the Thoth, but I don't say it isn't a Tarot deck.

I also think there can be a need for women-only spaces, as there are men-only spaces, as there have always been in nearly all societies. This deck seems to be one of them. The Goddess Tarot is another. I'm curious - does that deck disturb you as much as the DOM? Or is the politics of DOM, and the fact that it is Pagan, but outside the orthodoxy, that is so disturbing?

RedMaple