Let's Visconti!

[Moonbow]

Another resource for La Papesse is Robert O'Neills' take on who it might be. He writes about Pope Joan, Manfreda, and Mary here:

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/papess

I find the Isis image intriguing.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by conversus

Could you document the clothing gifts you mention in association with Beatrice D'Este.

I am not sure what you mean by document? I do not know if there is written evidence of Beatrice D'Este's receipts.I do not know if Blessed B was an oblate- most definitely an Abbess from her family standing- therefore a crozier. I imagine she would have been a Consecrated Virgin ( nothing to do with prior marriage)
Carthusians receive a Veil/Ring/stole/rosary and- or Cross.
Cistercians receive Crown/Ring/ stole or mandible etc
Trappists a ring and veil..... so on. It is known that she stayed in the family home and did her good works from there initially. Each order had it's own ritual. I do not know what particular order was in Ferrera at Saint Anthonys- but I feel it maybe the Clarrisse Nuns(Poor Claires) a really severe order who the crown was a part of receiving orders. (Franciscan Rule)

BEATRICE d’Este (1192-Gemmola 10 May 1226, bur Padua, Santa Sofia, transferred 1256 to Este Santa Tecla). The Annales S. Iustinæ Patavino names "Beatrix…soror supradicti marchionis" (in a passage dealing with Azzo) adding that she became a nun and was elected abbess of her convent. Nun at Gemmola 1221. An epitaph records the death of "Virgo Beatrix" daughter of "Estensis…Azo" and his "coniuge patre…Sabaudia cui comitatus"

From Catholic Annals and geneolgy

A Full fledged Nun- consecrated Virgin had special powers- they could preach the Gospel- they were emissaries for the Church Like Catherine of Siena. The devotion to the Church had no bounds and they often were anorexic, therefore suffering hallucinations and were considered mystics.

~Rosanne
To add: An Abbess would in the common sense be considered a "Mrs Pope"
because of her standing.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by Debra

Maybe it's my modern mind, but I'd see virginity(ies) as among the virtues...

Well yes- Chastity was a vow made by Nuns. Virginities = Cups + Love of the Blood of Christ or Baptism or the Marriage to God (Mystical Union) etc etc etc.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by Moonbow*

Another resource for La Papesse is Robert O'Neills' take on who it might be. He writes about Pope Joan, Manfreda, and Mary here:

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/papess

I find the Isis image intriguing.

So do I- but I do not see how Isis would be on Cards alongside a Bishop of Christ. I have often commented to my Catholic family how my Mother's devotion to the Virgin Mary appears eons old and her altar, an Altar to Isis.
All the ancient paraphernalia is visible Earth, Air, Fire, and Water.
Thanks for the link!
~Rosanne

[Rosanne]

Oops I forgot an important thing to post.

The Habit (dress) of the Poor Claires (Clarisse) is a loose robe of Brown or gray frieze( thick plain weave wool- like carpet poor sods ) with the waist cord is of linen rope about one-half inch in thickness having four knots representing the four vows; the sandals are of cloth. The four knots are different to other other cords of three knots. Usual vows are Poverty Chasity and Obedience and the Poor Claires take one further vow, that of the vow of Enclosure. Count the knots on our Papesse.
~Rosanne

[Abrac]

At Tarotpedia there's an article with a painting of the allegory Faith by Giotto from c.1305. It's side-by-side with the Female Pope from the Visconti-Sforza. Points of similarity include the cross in the right hand, scared text in left hand, tiara and nun's clothing. There's also a picture of the allegory of Foolishness that's very similar to The Fool. The similarity of these paintings to the Visconti-Sforza cards is so striking I can't help thinking there's a connection.

Another interesting tidbit is that in the earliest known complete list of trumps, the "Steele Sermon", c.1500, the Female Pope is card four right before the Pope.

[Rosanne]

Hi Abrac!

I agree the Giotto chapel fresco of fides or faith is very similar and I naturally feel a connection as you do - but we know it was a game and if it was an allegory then the sequence 22 was not originally a game in the sense of cards.
It could have been a teaching tool of the family - but that does not seem to bear out when consider that it( the deck) was commissioned as a gift of playing cards.

As to the Steele sermon well it was an invective against gaming so do you think the original idea of the Popesse was...

La papessa (O miseri quod negat Christiana fides): The Popess (O wretches, she who denies Christian Faith) - or maybe "O wretches, because Christian Faith denies [that]".

I mean the Visconti deck showing a denier of Faith?

~Rosanne

[Debra]

And her chair/throne is on a platform. Is that simply an artistic choice, or what?

[Abrac]

There are clearly some differences, like the tiara, but that can be explained by the early date of the painting. And she's sitting. I think that could absolutely have been an artistic choice to make her harmonize with the other seated figures. The scroll in the painting also seems to have become a book.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by Debra

And her chair/throne is on a platform. Is that simply an artistic choice, or what?

Well there are 12 platformed people in the deck + Chariot and that seems to have some meaning. Huck said once it reminded him of 12 months and the Sun.
I think they are all associated with the family- but they are the as we call them
4 Kings, 4 Queens, Papesse,Empress,Pope, and Emperor. (+ rider on the Chariot)
Looks like 'Go fish' or 'Happy Families' within the game. Maybe they are extra points in the game- or maybe they could be used as a separate game of 'Name Your Family'. The Kings look like young lads and the Queens a little older- maybe guests at a betrothal- brothers and sisters. It does not explain the older folks then. It was a definite choice to platform some cards and not others.
~Rosanne