Let's Visconti!

[Abrac]

Rosanne, I don't know if the intent was portray the allegory of faith, I just think that was one influence. Bembo may have intended several layers. It's interesting though that the author of the Steele Sermon incorporates the word "faith" into his comment.

[Rosanne]

I do not know either Abrac
All we can really go on is what is on the card.
There seems some explicit clues- like the waist cord for one.
If it was the allegory of Faith where are the rest of the players in the triumph.

I have been looking for a scan of Renaissance Nun's crowns- which in some orders are roses or thorns, but often a jeweled crown given by the family of the Nun. Because the receiving of orders was a private affair there does not seem to be any paintings that I can link.
The Nun wearing a triple crown is alluding to in this prayer and hymn based on Mathew 13.8....and sung by the family of the Nun when the ceremony takes place. Today the Nun comes in wearing a bridal outfit and leaves after changing in the sacristy to her habit.

"Some crowns with glory thirty-fold are shining;
Others, a double flower and fruit combining,
Thy trinal chaplet bears an intertwining
Hundredfold fruit-age."

This is an allusion to a triple crown of Prophet, Virgin, and Martyr.

[Rosanne]

Whilst I personally believe the Visconti was modeled on something we no longer have; and that was a more humerous set of cards. I agree with this statement in Kaplan Vol 11

One of the puzzling aspects of the Visconti and the Visconti-Sforza decks is that they stand in a class by themselves.; many of the cards provide no link to subsequent decks....snippy snip snip.....O'Neill feels, does not necessarily mean they are the original decks.

and that..... were actually based on pre-existing decks from which many of the original symbols were 'expurgated' (which means purified by means of removing objectionable matter)

An example would be the Fool of the Noblet compared to the Visconti Fool.
No bare bottom or dangling Penis for card playing in these households!

Which brings me to the Empress and Emperor as well call them.

Well I feel they represent actual People so maybe Emperor Sigismund
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigismu..._Roman_Emperor and the similarity is quite evident.
There is a proviso for me in here. The Sforza were married in the Church Of Saint Sigismund and I find his image compelling. Look at stance Septre and orb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigismund_of_Burgundy.

I do not think she whom we call the Empress, is Mary of Hungary or Barbara of Celji, Sigismund's wives.

Now she has an Eagle on her shield/ plate similar to the Emperor's hat. So if an historical figure...who is she?

Bianca Visconti's Mother? Not very likely as Agnese was of no noble standing and not married to her Father.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnese_del_Maino

Queen Joanna 11 of Naples?
Seems a little left field as Sforza and the Queen had an on again off again relationship.

Could this be Mary the Virgin Mother?
Well when Bianca and Francesca married -symbolically it was considered that they were presented to the Virgin Mary by Saint Sigismund and this was later represented by a painting by Cremonese Painter Giulio Campi, in the Cremona Church built by Francesca. So what of The Eagles. Well it is known as the Imperial Eagle, and is a sign of the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor; this indicated that Sforza ruled Milan under legitimate appointment. In truth it was not legitimate appointment and could be considered that legitimate appointment was by Mary The Virgin and Saint Sigismund.

So really I am less sure who our Empress might be than I am about the Papesse- But I am going for The Virgin Mary and Saint Sigismund.

~Rosanne

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Rosanne

http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment...chmentid=43045

Here's a fool with elements from several fool cards - feathers, dog, wizzy-wig, hobby horse and 4 children:

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Abrac

It's interesting though that the author of the Steele Sermon incorporates the word "faith" into his comment.

'That which faith rejects', ie, like woman and gays in the priesthood - a 'papesse' in Catholicism being an impossibility.

[Rosanne]

Originally Posted by Rosanne

"The meaning of the imagery on early Tarocchi cards has been discussed by Tarot researchers and occultists for centuries. Some believe that the major Arcana cards are an interconnected story about life. Other historians believe the hand-painted fifteenth century cards represent identifiable people, places and events of the Italian Renaissance." Kaplan Vol 11 P.154.

I personally do not have a problem with historical figures been represented in a archetypal, allegorical or symbolic way. We humans always seem to do it.
I am not even sure that that figures in the Visconti are historical figures- but I feel they are- because the deck has a personal feel about it. These are feelings not facts. So anything we might arrive at in the absence of fact is conjecture.

As far as the Papessa is concerned the only thing we can be sure of is her Catholic-ness and that she is a "sole Femme" either a nun or a saint or both.
Her rope belt tells you she is not a female Pope- and there has only been one of those if the story is true of Pope Joan. Aside from the Papacy itself been symbolised by this card which of course is possible....
who are the contenders for a Historical figure?

Sister Maifreda :
http://marygreer.wordpress.com/2009/...4new-evidence/
But for the theology is wrong as the Guglielmites were considered heretical and Maifreda was burned at the stake. Not an illustrious Visconti cousin to have.

Saint Catherine of Siena :
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=9
but I would have expected to see a rose or a lily- and Dominican Nuns did not get crowned with a tiara when they had completed their novitiate period.
(Nuns traditionally receive a rosary and a gold wedding ring) The connection between Siena and Francesco Sforza is strong and compelling though. It was in Siena that he met with Emperor Sigismund and when Sigismund was crowned with the Iron Crown - Francesca was betrothed to Bianca. Against this is the fact that the city's seigniory was given to Gian Galeazzo Visconti of Milan in order to defend it from the Florentine expansionism, but by 1404 the Visconti were expelled. So a tick for Sforza and a cross for Visconti.

Blessed Beatrice D'Este
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatric...28died_1226%29
Gremola is on the outskirts of Ferrara. The offshoot of the Benedictine order she joined is like the Cistercian Nuns of the Certosa of Pavia fame. They received a Tiara crown along with a ring and Cross on a staff when they received the 'Rule'. The D'Este are famous for their illuminated books/ Prayer books etc. The education of the females in the line and Isabella D'Este was a famous Renaissance woman- made them a important family.

Saint Marcellina:
The only sister of St. Ambrose of Milan, b. about 330-5; d. about 398. She was older than St. Ambrose, and was born most probably at Trier, where her father resided as praefectus praetorio Galliarum. Even before her father's death she went to Rome, the home of her family, and, before her mother's arrival at the capital with her two sons, had already forsaken the world, elected to live a life of Christian virginity, and devoted herself to the practice of piety and asceticism. On Christmas Day, probably in 353, she received the veil of consecrated virginity from the hand of Pope Liberius. The advice, which the pope addressed to her on this occasion, has been preserved by St. Ambrose (De virginibus, III, i-iii), especially emphasized being the obligations of Christian virgins to preserve virginal purity. After Ambrose had become Bishop of Milan (374), he summoned his sister thither, and found in her a zealous assistant in fostering and extending the ascetic life among the maidens of Milan. To her Ambrose dedicated his work on virginity, written in 377 ("Libri III de virginibus ad Marcellinam" in P.L. XVI, 187-232). Marcellina survived her brother, and died in 398 or shortly afterwards. She also was buried in the crypt under the altar of the Ambrosian Basilica, and was honoured as a saint. Her feast is celebrated on 17 July. Legend has it that she taught her brother to read- and her symbols are the cross, script (book) and Crown and her and her Brother Saint Ambrose became the patron Saints of Milan. (Catholic Encyclopedia)

My absolute Favourite!

So Riches (Emperor) Virtues (Pope) Pleasures (Empress) and.....Virginities (Papesse) govern the suits. Maybe.

~Rosanne

After much research, I have come to the conclusion that the Popesse/Papessa of the Visconti PBM is a Poor Claire or Saint Claire wearing her/Their triple crown as Queen of Heaven (as dictated/predicted by Saint Francis) Bianca Visconti had special devotion to the Poor Claires and Saint Claire and grew up in the town Abiategrasse where the Poor Claires lived. She would be the best description of Faith as because they do not have property so live according to Catholic Doctrine By Faith Alone and would be why Giotto's painting would be these type of Nuns depicted as Faith. Sforza made a vow to build church and Convent in Abiategrasse in thanks to been saved from Ambush. Their son carried out the work because of his mother's devotion to Saint Claire. Look on web for Church and Convent of the Annunciation in Abiategrasse now Suburb of Milan. Beware the translated sites call Bianca Visconti Mary White (literal translation)

Thank you Kwaw for Fool image with feathers- it is helpful in another thread.
I also believe that the Steele sermon had long forgot that it was not a Popesse but Saint Claire/Poor Claire. All because of a triple crown worn by Nuns at their consecration. Ha! when you are going to rant about something- perhaps the writer should have thought about it a little longer. That includes me sometimes.

~Rosanne

[Rosanne]

Here is old Holy Picture of Saint Clare, have one of her with Cross- not lily- but always with Book.

~Rosanne

[conversus]

Originally Posted by Rosanne

I also believe that the Steele sermon had long forgot that it was not a Popesse but Saint Claire/Poor Claire. All because of a triple crown worn by Nuns at their consecration. Ha! when you are going to rant about something- perhaps the writer should have thought about it a little longer. That includes me sometimes.

~Rosanne

Rosanne:

I may have asked this in the dim recesses of the past, but dare i to ask again if you could document the claim that Poor Clares (or any Nuns for that matter) were ever adorned with any semblance of a triple crown at their Clothing ceremony, consecration, or perpetual vows?

I do not mean this as a challenge, I'm just terribly interested. I've known a number of Poor Clares over the years and they have never mentioned this aspect of their ritual to me. . .

thanks for all you do to make this list the joy that it is!!!

Peace and All Good!!!

CED

[Rosanne]

Hi Conversus- How interesting that you have a Poor Clare friend.
I am not sure if she would talk about her taking the Profession.
I have, in my past a lot to do with Dominican Nuns, The Mercy Order, and Franciscans- but little to do with the Poor Clares. When I was a child I was a Marian-aide to the Little Sisters of the Poor, who looked after the Elderly and sick. Back in the 15th century they estimate there were about 70,000 Nuns in Lombardy. This was for lots of reasons- to complex - needs it's own thread, and I am not sure that here is the right place except if it is accepted/ decided the Papesse is a Nun. So I will try and answer your question with sites to look at.
Firstly the Poor Clares are a contemplative order. They are or were enclosed.
That means they spent time in prayer and silence. They were often well educated so could read. The Bible or at least the Gospels had been translated into Latin by Saint and they usually had a privately gifted Book of Hours.
For example In the 12th century the German abbess Hildegard von Bingen, for example, advocated a style for her nuns that included extravagant and lavish white silk habits worn with golden head pieces designed to present the nun to Christ in her most beautiful form.

Many women were placed into convents by their families. The Church received a dowry from the parents of the nuns, and any jewelry which belonged to the girl which added wealth to the convent or nunnery. Older women also became nuns, many widows chose this way of life after the death of their husband. Many convents and nunneries only accepted postulents who were from wealthy backgrounds. Every candidate for admission to a nun's order took the vow of obedience. The postulancy usually lasted one month, the novitiate one year, at the end which simple vows were taken. The solemn vows of the Medieval Nuns were taken four years later. Having once joined she remained a nun for the rest of her life. The medieval ceremony for the consecration of nuns was similar to a wedding - a nun would be seen as married to God. A ring was placed on the nun's finger and she wore a wedding crown or headdress. Medieval ecclesiastic terms which related to becoming a nun in Medieval Times

Now these headdresses some were like royal crowns- some like Princess Tiara's and some were like Pope's Tiara's and the three tiers were jewelled flowers. This comes from the combining of The Mystic marriage and older Roman examples of May celebrations of a Papal tiara shape of Roses called a Floralia. The Month of May is named after the goddess Maia, the wife of Mars, Mother to Mercury. So Queen of Heaven- married to God.
Ross Caldwell found an earlier fresco he thought was a Papesse, but it was May from the Palazzo della Ragione in Venice.
It is not likely there would be paintings of the Private ceremony of Profession (taking the Vows) but there is a book that I believe has a picture of a badge worn in the 15th Century showing the crowning of a Nun.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=L...monies&f=false

Here is a newspaper article about a Nun taking the veil- first dressed as a Bride, then she gets her Habit and veil and comes out wearing these Nuns clothes with the crown on.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=z...20veil&f=false

It is still practised today- but there is a difference between a Nun and a Sister of a convent. A Nun only becomes a Bride of Christ with a crown- and some Nuns do not use the Crown, but a circlet of flowers instead. It is in the main Contemplative Nuns who had the Triple crown as ordered by Saint Francis- hence the Nuns called Poor Clares not the Sisters of the 2nd order of Saint Francis.

Hope this helps- but I have not been able to find lists of belongings to famous Nuns, because once they take the Veil- all their belongings belong to the Convent. I think I saw one in Florence- but it did not say it belonged to a convent.
~Rosanne

[Rosanne]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-...the+virgin.jpg

This is a crown just like the one I saw in Florence. I imagine the artist had some sort of idea what a crown for the Consecration of the Virgin looked like.

Here is one from a manuscript Nuns been given their ring and Crown from baby Jesus
http://fits.depauw.edu/aharris/Cours...rationNuns.jpg

Saint Bridgit Nun and Abbess of Ireland
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PjMVCKQDVg...0-h/brigit.gif

I am told there is a Nun's triple Tiara in this book
http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-2...ableOfContents

And....get a load of this one as Bride of Christ in Mexico! Wow!
http://csws.uoregon.edu/?page_id=194

Monja Coronadas indeed.

~Rosanne