Thoth 2005 by Urania Verlag

[SolSionnach]

Originally Posted by Aeon418

They are not keywords. They are the names of the cards. Why change them?

For that matter why stop there? Should we change the names of the Major cards, Death, Lust, and the Devil to something more soothing and placid?

Hi Aeon418.. I've been reading a lot of your posts lately, thanks so much for sharing your insights all over this forum. I appreciate that a *lot*.

I used "keywords" in the general sense of a tarot card with a word on it. The point that many people have made is that querents can be freaked out by some keywords. In addition, there has been talk about the geometry in the Thoth, and you have to trim off the borders (and lose the titles) in order to play with that.

As you well know, many decks change the names of those cards in that fashion (death to transition, devil to bondage or temptation) - I don't use those decks. Then again, why change Strength to Lust? Temperance to Art? Judgment to Aeon? Justice to Adjustment? It appears that AC had a problem with the Virtues! Why not keep the traditional TdM titles? Indeed!

It seems that the Virtues didn't fit into Thelema, so they were ditched.

I have no problem with that. For some people, Thoth is holy writ. It appears that you are in that category. I'm not. Sorry for suggesting desecration of the deck.

Originally Posted by Jeannette

As the deck is currently only available in German, yes -- the supply we receive will be in German. We'll order an English language version later, if they release one. But I expect that we'll be able to finalize our next order with KöningsFürt before any English language version might be released.

-- Jeannette

Hi Jeannette,
Thanks for the answer. Is this deck the size of the Deluxe Thoth, or the "regular" size?

I'll need to budget for the deck - and I did notice that you said that it will be months before you have it in hand. I'll look forward to that!

[Storm82]

Originally Posted by Le Fanu

Interesting that Crowley´s own sketch for the Magus is more similar to the Magus which was never used. It has a similar composition to that Magus with all the arms holding Cup/Swords etc which was issued alongside the two other Magus cards in the US Games "purple" box...

btw, does that post of Jeanette's suggest that the AG Muller Blue Boxes are simply held up? i.e , it is out of stock everywhere because the delivery has been help up. So it IS still available.... did I understand it correctly?

sorry, where did you see this sketch ?

[gregory]

Originally Posted by Storm82

sorry, where did you see this sketch ?

Further up the thread - here

Given the way contact with "AGM" works just now, I'd say it is ENTIRELY possible that they have kept Jeannette waiting ages and will then send her the new edition. I've not seen a blue box Muller in a store for ages, only in on line stores....

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by sravana

As you well know, many decks change the names of those cards in that fashion (death to transition, devil to bondage or temptation) - I don't use those decks.

Yes, but those decks were created that way with those changes. It's one thing to create something that incorporates changes. But asking for someone else's creation to be changed just because you don't like it is something else altogether.

[gregory]

But hasn't someone said that the new edition DOES change the titles ?

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by similia

And the original titles. I know no German, but my understanding is the titles are not just translated, but actually have been changed on several of the minors.

Where did you get that info, Similia?

[Grigori]

Originally Posted by Aeon418

Where did you get that info, Similia?

From a link in a thread here at AT. Maybe even this thread years ago when it first started. I'll try to find it again.

There was a link to a site that listed the translations of the new German titles and compared them to the original titles. A bunch of folks were up in arms about it. Several of the minors had changes, and if memory serves not just the confronting ones, even the happy fluffy ones took some modifications, in some cases very different.

[Grigori]

No joy sorry guys, its not in this thread and not the other ones I can spot either. The link I think was removed anyway, cause it was to another forum discussing the release of the deck. But I thought I might be able to find the poster and track the info down again. Does this sound familar to anyone else or is it just me?

[gregory]

No it isn't just you - that's why I mentioned it. We were all livid in that thread. I was trying to find it as well - I wonder where it went.....

[Aulruna]

I'm at work and can't check, but the review by Hajo Banzhaf notes the following changes:

Hierophant: was Hohepriester -> now Hierophant
Magician: was Magier -> now Magus
Aeon: was Das Aeon -> now der Aeon
Six of Cups (Pleasure: was Genuss -> now Freude
Nine of Cups(Happiness): was Freude -> now Glückseligkeit
Three of Swords (Sorrow): was Kummer -> now Trauer
Four of Swords (Truce): was Waffenruhe -> now Waffenstillstand
Seven of Swords (Futility): was Vergeblichkeit -> now Nutzlosigkeit

Banzhaf correctly states that the renamed Minors are just "linguistic sophistry"...


http://www.tarotwissen.de/uploads/File/crowley_deck.pdf