Le Soleil - how may it be read?

**jmd** · 02-01-2005

I must admit that I had never in the past read this card to indicate in any manner some horrendous event... but that is exactly how it came up in some recent reflections - obviously as a consequence of the very recent, and to us reading this at this stage, still immediate, Tsunami event in the Indian Ocean area.

The two young people are certainly seemingly happy and carefree within or behind the safe human construct of the wall... and the Sun's majesty shines upon all. Yet what is in the process of unfoldment behind those walls? what indeed is occuring that from one moment to the next, a blissful world may be shattered?

Of course, such a reading I would see more as this card adjacent, for example, the Tower...

Yet the card itself may give, in a specific situation, a reading of this kind as one enters the situation at hand.

The blissfulness of this world is likewise naturally followed in the sequence (XX shows quite a different scene). Complacency to the joys and happiness that one is graced and blessed with may perhaps best be enjoyed as given - what changes occur are at times beyond the built-up realms of the protecting wall... as Siddharta also experienced in a different way.

Attached is from the Felicité Marseille...

Paul · 02-01-2005

Perhaps, we have the brothers Remus and Romulus standing before their wall. One of them, anyway, will build Rome.

Such a card of great promise and possibility. But, you will be Judged by how you spend this gold.

**tmgrl2** · 03-01-2005

I think of the sequence of Star, Moon, Sun as

a mini-

birth, death, resurrection/rebirth...

With the Moon we have the darkness of incertitude and with the Sun, a triumph over darkness, ignorance, clarity.

The two "youths" could symbolize the future, potentiality.

Interesting that there are six droplets on the side of each figure (The Lover?) and blue one in the center (spiritual unity, communication,) just below a red ray from Le Soleil.
Red for courage, ardor, creativity

I am looking at both the Hadar and Camoin cards.

Side by side, if we see the VI (L'Amoreux), le Diable (XV)
la Maison Dieu (XVI) and Le Soleil, we have some painful journeying afoot...but with Le Soleil, we have finally see our figures with their feet on blue (Camoin) or yellow/gold
(Hadar) soil, as though matters have been addressed.

Interestingly, one has the left hand on the solar plexus area of the other, whose right hand rests behind the head of his/her partner. With all four feet planted firmly on the ground and with each having one hand on a different chakra, it's as if they complete a cycle from spirit to heart/feelings, to earth where they are grounded.

Success, integrity, prosperity, union or re-union, rebirth.

Internal and external visions unified.

Perfection realized
Purity, innocence, rediscovery of the soul of a child.

Dance of joy

Self-confidence

Total happiness...if only for the moment.

A creative work of art comes to fruition.

Physical health, energy.

Badly placed or reversed??
Arrogance, illusion, intolerance ?

terri

**Moonbow** · 03-01-2005

I have always been curious as to why the Marseilles Sun is depicted as unhappy, why not a smiley face

. And why, does it look like it's crying? I've said this before in another thread, but after reading jmd's post I can see a connection now.

The Grimaud and Hadar show the Sun as crying, but the Camoin and Heron Conver show the Earth as crying (note the 'tears'). I see two children playing in their garden on a hot day....... so generally I would read this card as carefree happiness.... but....we should remember that the sun can burn as well as give us light.

kwaw · 22-01-2005

The image of two youths playing is one that was used in astrology to depict the 5th house, whose zodiacal consignificator is Leo, ruled by the Sun. The fifth house rules over children, over places of play, gaming, pleasure and entertainment; and over messengers, ambassadors and agents representing or acting on behalf of others.

Assuming a 1:1 correspondence between the order of the Hebrew alphabet and the sequence of cards then, taking alef as fool, the Sun card would correspond to the letter Resh which is attributed to the planet Mercury in most standard versions of the SY [though variations exist within late redactions of the SY]. This may relate to the similarity between the image of this card to that of Gemini, the day sign of Mercury, but I think the attribute most in accord is that of Youth, for the Sun too was often refered to as being eternally youthful. Mercury itself is considered as being neuter, defined neither as male or female. Mercury was, and is, associated with the Gods Hermes and Thoth. In Egyptian hieroglypics the ibis head, the symbol of Thoth, was used to represent the word ib meaning heart. Not in this instance upon phonetic grounds but mythological, because Thoth was called the heart of the Sun, and thus his image was used to depict the word for heart. In astrology the Sun is a significator of the heart.

The letter Reish, though in alphabetical sequence near the end, means beginning, thus it called the beginning of the end [in following fashion Shin is the middle of the end and Tau is the end of the end].

The letter Reish RYSh spelt in full is Resh, Yud, Shin. Thus it is said the letter Resh is filled or pregnant with YSh, which means something, being and this being is the recognition of the self as an individual separate identity, of I am, ego. In astrology the Sun is a significator of the self, the ego.

The two youths could also be seen as emlematic figures of the Sun in the Morning and the Sun in the evening, in its rising and setting [as we are looking South at the midday Sun, the morning, rising Sun would be represented by the figure on the left; the evening, setting Sun by the figure on the right]. The face of the Sun is not a happy face, in some decks it looks outright angry and fierce; perhaps related to the heat of the Sun at is height being too fierce for work, and in hot countries such as those of the mediteranian was a time to break from work for rest and relaxation. In connection with this we note that the Hebrew letter Reish is said to represent the continuing and sustaining presence of the Sabbath [day of rest] through the working days of the week.

Kwaw

Sophie · 23-01-2005

I see Aleph starting with I-Le Bateleur, therefore XVIIII-Le Soleil is Quf, which is made up of reish and zayin. And indeed the love and blessing of G-d are contained in the zayin, the sparks of life, emanating from the Soleil and which are the very essence of what the Sun represented to the Ancients; it is this blessing that leads human beings to the new beginning (reish) of XX-Le Jugement.

In the Zohar, Quf stands for qedushah - holiness, one of the chief attributes of G-d. It's mentioned throughout the Zohar, but one such mention is: "What then is the Holiness of Hashem? Rabbi Aba replied: This is the sanctity or the holiness that descends from above"; and. "He is grasped within all worlds, yet none grasps Him". I am reminded that our Hebrew G-d replaced, in the ancient Middle East, all the sun gods whose attributes were "giver of life" and "holiest", and integrated all their attributes. Just as Moses could no bear the sight of G-d, so can no-one look at the sun. (NB: He also replaced the other gods and goddesses, and took on their attributes).

There is a link with XVIII- La Lune: the moon makes a 19-year cycle in relation the sun - this is the basis of the Jewish calendar. XVIII-La Lune is represented by the letter tzadik, one of whose meanings is faith; when quf is placed before tzadik (man preceding woman, the order of creation, in symbolic terms, or Love preceding Faith) then you get the word keitz, the end, when the Messiah will come - hinting the next card: XX-Le Jugement.

In relation to XVII-Le Toille, represented by the letter Pei - the mouth of G-d, the oral Torah, which is a feminine grace, a bringer of Hope to the people of Israel - we may say that the zayin of life, the love of G-d, that emanate from the sun/G-d fall upon the lover of the Torah; in the Zohar Torah is symbolised by a beautiful maiden.

This sequence- pei-zayin-quf and its mystical correspondences - were adopted in Christian mysticism as Hope, Faith and Love, daughters of Sophia, Divine Wisdom, and another way of viewing Le Toille, La Lune and Le Soleil.

The serious look of the Sun in the card may remind us of G-d as father, who is both serious, demanding and loving. But also -as kwaw wrote - of the hot Mediterranean sun, in turn an angry and benevolent presence. As I wrote above, these two were linked.

I see the two young people as friends, young lovers or brothers. In the Conver version of the card (and its descendents), one figure appears to be helping the other, encouraging him along. Perhaps he is coaxing him to trust life again after a cataclysm like the tsunami. In the Jean Dodal, they appear to be encouraging each other, and simply playing, reminding us of the gift of children - their un-selfconscious acceptance of life, their ease in adapting, their simple joy at playing outside in the sun. This scene reminds me very much of the children I met in Iraq who, as soon as guns were silent, would rush outside and play among the rubble, the dust and the date palms in the sun-bathed streets: and laugh, a blessed gift to all in the middle of war.

I would read this card as joy, the wonderful blessing of life and love from G-d, especially coming out of a difficult period, in which we were sustained by hope and faith.

kwaw · 25-01-2005

One seems to be touching the others head [reish], the other the heart or solar plexus of the other [again, reish].

Kwaw

kwaw · 25-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helvetica

There is a link with XVIII- La Lune: the moon makes a 19-year cycle in relation the sun - this is the basis of the Jewish calendar.

True, that's why possibilby in one tradition 'luna' is equated to the 19th letter qoph, a letter in Hebrew tradition that is equated with the moon, not the sun. It is of course also related to the holy number 7 [in 19 years there are 7 intercalations of lunar months].

Quote:

This sequence- pei-zayin-quf and its mystical correspondences - were adopted in Christian mysticism as Hope, Faith and Love, daughters of Sophia, Divine Wisdom, and another way of viewing Le Toille, La Lune and Le Soleil.

Thanks helvetica, that's new to me. Have you a reference/source for this? It appears to contradict everything I know from judaic sources of the sequence resh, shin, tau; but if there is any cabalistic contribution then it is likely to be christian or marrano than stictly jewish.

Kwaw

Sophie · 25-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwaw

True, that's why possibilby in one tradition 'luna' is equated to the 19th letter qoph, a letter in Hebrew tradition that is equated with the moon, not the sun. It is of course also related to the holy number 7 [in 19 years there are 7 intercalations of lunar months].

But the Tarot isn't Jewish. Could be marane, or marane-influenced, rather, hence the shift. I'd not heard quf equated with the moon before - but I'm not exactly a Kabbala scholar, I've read a few Jewish commentaries, and Gershom Sholem's version of the Zohar - lovely, some of it is hard going, but mainly I remember being entranced by the stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwaw

Thanks helvetica, that's new to me. Have you a reference/source for this? It appears to contradict everything I know from judaic sources of the sequence resh, shin, tau; but if there is any cabalistic contribution then it is likely to be christian or marrano than stictly jewish.

Marane, more likely, given that if the Tarot has any Kabbalistic correspondences, it would be through them, surely? Or possibly through the synchretism found in places like Naples University?

Why does it contradict resh shin tav? A musician rabbi friend once told me that Torah was like a symphony - the most alluring phrases come back often, in different guises and are collected into themes. But, as I said, I'm hardly a scholar: a storyteller, at best

And when I wrote that such ideas were picked up by Christian thinkers - they would have mixed them up with other philosophies (Gnostic) - and presumably they picked what they fancied and left the rest! Perhaps you are right. But then - see the musical theme above...

kwaw · 25-01-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helvetica

Why does it contradict resh shin tav? A musician rabbi friend once told me that Torah was like a symphony - the most alluring phrases come back often, in different guises and are collected into themes.

True, good point, I like the analogy. Same could be said of the Tarot, do you think?

Kwaw

Paul Citizen Join Date: 07 Oct 2004 Location: - Posts: 405	Perhaps, we have the brothers Remus and Romulus standing before their wall. One of them, anyway, will build Rome. Such a card of great promise and possibility. But, you will be Judged by how you spend this gold. __________________ Paul

02-01-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #2

Moonbow Jougen no tsuki Join Date: 08 Nov 2003 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 8,978	I have always been curious as to why the Marseilles Sun is depicted as unhappy, why not a smiley face . And why, does it look like it's crying? I've said this before in another thread, but after reading jmd's post I can see a connection now. The Grimaud and Hadar show the Sun as crying, but the Camoin and Heron Conver show the Earth as crying (note the 'tears'). I see two children playing in their garden on a hot day....... so generally I would read this card as carefree happiness.... but....we should remember that the sun can burn as well as give us light. __________________ Insh'Allah Bukra Mumkin

03-01-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #4

kwaw Citizen Join Date: 29 Dec 2003 Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey Posts: 4,621	Some astrological and kabbalistic associations: The image of two youths playing is one that was used in astrology to depict the 5th house, whose zodiacal consignificator is Leo, ruled by the Sun. The fifth house rules over children, over places of play, gaming, pleasure and entertainment; and over messengers, ambassadors and agents representing or acting on behalf of others. Assuming a 1:1 correspondence between the order of the Hebrew alphabet and the sequence of cards then, taking alef as fool, the Sun card would correspond to the letter Resh which is attributed to the planet Mercury in most standard versions of the SY [though variations exist within late redactions of the SY]. This may relate to the similarity between the image of this card to that of Gemini, the day sign of Mercury, but I think the attribute most in accord is that of Youth, for the Sun too was often refered to as being eternally youthful. Mercury itself is considered as being neuter, defined neither as male or female. Mercury was, and is, associated with the Gods Hermes and Thoth. In Egyptian hieroglypics the ibis head, the symbol of Thoth, was used to represent the word ib meaning heart. Not in this instance upon phonetic grounds but mythological, because Thoth was called the heart of the Sun, and thus his image was used to depict the word for heart. In astrology the Sun is a significator of the heart. The letter Reish, though in alphabetical sequence near the end, means beginning, thus it called the beginning of the end [in following fashion Shin is the middle of the end and Tau is the end of the end]. The letter Reish RYSh spelt in full is Resh, Yud, Shin. Thus it is said the letter Resh is filled or pregnant with YSh, which means something, being and this being is the recognition of the self as an individual separate identity, of I am, ego. In astrology the Sun is a significator of the self, the ego. The two youths could also be seen as emlematic figures of the Sun in the Morning and the Sun in the evening, in its rising and setting [as we are looking South at the midday Sun, the morning, rising Sun would be represented by the figure on the left; the evening, setting Sun by the figure on the right]. The face of the Sun is not a happy face, in some decks it looks outright angry and fierce; perhaps related to the heat of the Sun at is height being too fierce for work, and in hot countries such as those of the mediteranian was a time to break from work for rest and relaxation. In connection with this we note that the Hebrew letter Reish is said to represent the continuing and sustaining presence of the Sabbath [day of rest] through the working days of the week. Kwaw Last edited by kwaw; 23-01-2005 at 00:25.

22-01-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #5

Sophie Citizen Join Date: 10 Oct 2004 Location: moving again Posts: 20,308	Some different Kabbalistic associations - and a personal note I see Aleph starting with I-Le Bateleur, therefore XVIIII-Le Soleil is Quf, which is made up of reish and zayin. And indeed the love and blessing of G-d are contained in the zayin, the sparks of life, emanating from the Soleil and which are the very essence of what the Sun represented to the Ancients; it is this blessing that leads human beings to the new beginning (reish) of XX-Le Jugement. In the Zohar, Quf stands for qedushah - holiness, one of the chief attributes of G-d. It's mentioned throughout the Zohar, but one such mention is: "What then is the Holiness of Hashem? Rabbi Aba replied: This is the sanctity or the holiness that descends from above"; and. "He is grasped within all worlds, yet none grasps Him". I am reminded that our Hebrew G-d replaced, in the ancient Middle East, all the sun gods whose attributes were "giver of life" and "holiest", and integrated all their attributes. Just as Moses could no bear the sight of G-d, so can no-one look at the sun. (NB: He also replaced the other gods and goddesses, and took on their attributes). There is a link with XVIII- La Lune: the moon makes a 19-year cycle in relation the sun - this is the basis of the Jewish calendar. XVIII-La Lune is represented by the letter tzadik, one of whose meanings is faith; when quf is placed before tzadik (man preceding woman, the order of creation, in symbolic terms, or Love preceding Faith) then you get the word keitz, the end, when the Messiah will come - hinting the next card: XX-Le Jugement. In relation to XVII-Le Toille, represented by the letter Pei - the mouth of G-d, the oral Torah, which is a feminine grace, a bringer of Hope to the people of Israel - we may say that the zayin of life, the love of G-d, that emanate from the sun/G-d fall upon the lover of the Torah; in the Zohar Torah is symbolised by a beautiful maiden. This sequence- pei-zayin-quf and its mystical correspondences - were adopted in Christian mysticism as Hope, Faith and Love, daughters of Sophia, Divine Wisdom, and another way of viewing Le Toille, La Lune and Le Soleil. The serious look of the Sun in the card may remind us of G-d as father, who is both serious, demanding and loving. But also -as kwaw wrote - of the hot Mediterranean sun, in turn an angry and benevolent presence. As I wrote above, these two were linked. I see the two young people as friends, young lovers or brothers. In the Conver version of the card (and its descendents), one figure appears to be helping the other, encouraging him along. Perhaps he is coaxing him to trust life again after a cataclysm like the tsunami. In the Jean Dodal, they appear to be encouraging each other, and simply playing, reminding us of the gift of children - their un-selfconscious acceptance of life, their ease in adapting, their simple joy at playing outside in the sun. This scene reminds me very much of the children I met in Iraq who, as soon as guns were silent, would rush outside and play among the rubble, the dust and the date palms in the sun-bathed streets: and laugh, a blessed gift to all in the middle of war. I would read this card as joy, the wonderful blessing of life and love from G-d, especially coming out of a difficult period, in which we were sustained by hope and faith. __________________ All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain Last edited by Sophie; 23-01-2005 at 21:33.

23-01-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #6

kwaw Citizen Join Date: 29 Dec 2003 Location: Nr. Ephesus, Turkey Posts: 4,621	One seems to be touching the others head [reish], the other the heart or solar plexus of the other [again, reish]. Kwaw

25-01-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #7

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