Legends: #8 Strength Percivale's Vision

[WalesWoman]

This is another very different card...the Maid and the Lion are there, hand in hand with an other worldly green Crone atop a serpent. Both women are various aspects of the Goddess, the young blossoming with love of life, innocent enthusiasm while the Crone represents the experience and wisdom that comes with age. Anna-Marie must have been delving a bit into Hebrewism as well, since she mentions serpent in Hebrew means "wisdom."

I thought it odd that the Crone is green, or maybe it's bad lighting. But then to be honest, when I look in the mirror these days at my face, my body, the new wrinkly skin on my hands and arms...I know I must be in some alien body other that the one I grew up with! This just isn't me! But I think that is another side of Strength...getting that young maid I am inside to accept the changes that come with age and experience, to look at them as honor marks for successfully surviving the directions life has taken us. The youth inside gives us the energy and enthusiasm to follow our passions that only the wisdom that comes from experience can channel in a constructive way. (Just wish the maid was less of a mental attitude and her strength more of a physical attribute these days)

Notice that the Maid rides astride, bareback, holding to the Lion's mane, that's a hard to keep a seat that way, takes a lot of courage, practice, discipline and trust, a good understanding between the rider and the lion to work together. The Crone uses reins, the Snake, almost makes a natural saddle for her so her ride seems more secure, more directed and in control. The symbolism between these two, is that unity, combining assets between equal partners brings strength and energy with direction. They are using all their potential, ah the maid is the motivating passion, the crone is the navaigating mind.

In the story, Percivale's vision, the young girl and the lion represent Christianity and the Crone represents the Old Religion. Which makes sense, since St. Patrick drove all the serpents from Ireland...which was double speak for driving out the Druids and the worship of pagen gods and goddesses. Makes me wonder if St. George, hailed for slaying dragons...was a Druid hunter. From stories I've read, wode was used to tatoo Druids and as they gained wisdom and status (?) dragons were tattooed on their forearms.

I sort of think the story bites big time...Percival is on the Quest for the Holy Grail and is tested. He finds himself marooned on an island and sees a battle going on between a serpent and a lion, so he kills the serpent (because in his reasoning the lion was the gentler of the two) ??? Hey I didn't write this story, but the lion thought he was his new best friend after that. That night he dreamed of two women, a young beautiful one riding the lion and an wrinkled old crone riding the serpent. The girl warned him that the next day he would have to battle the strongest of champions and if he failed he would "be shamed til the world's end," and disappeared. Then the crone told him the serpent he had killed was hers, but to make amends he could be her boy toy. He didn't think much of that, but she said she'd have him one way or another.

I'm sure Percivale must have been sure he was losing his mind, especially having a spectre, a ghost appear the next morning and told him to be strong, true of heart and the order of chivary. The maid and lion represented the "new law of the holy church, faith, good hope, belief and baptism." He told him the crone who rode the serpent was the old law and a fiend. Oh boy!

Along comes a ship, with a pretty young girl who had been disinherited and banished and wanted Percival's help. He being a knight in shining armor agrees, plus he gets a meal and a way off the island. She was quite charming and he was getting quite drunk and smitten...then he promised to serve only her and obey all of her commands if she would "fulfill his lusty desires" While she's undressing Percivale glimpses the crucifix on the pommel of his sword , made the sign of the cross and that was the end of that! Everything vanished in a cloud of smoke, but not with out the wind roaring her anger at his betrayal.

This part is too much, Percivale is so overcome with guilt and remorse for nearly succombing to temptation, so sure he is unworthy now to continue the Quest for the Grail, that he drives his sword into his thigh. Idiot!

The old man, who appeared as a spector and warned him that morning, reappeared just then with a ship and explained the beautiful young girl and the old crone, were one and the same- the Devil.

Excuse me! I'm just sick of women always being blamed for men's weaknesses. Before I go on a rant and offend anyone's religion...I do put the blame for most of the sick behavior and divants on this very thing, that sex is evil. Therefore lust is evil, therefore who you lust after must be evil to make you become obsessed by them...since men supposedly have sexual thoughts every 8 minutes...then women are evil for making them have them? ARRRGH!

OK, done with the rant.

I like Strength...it's ruled by the constellation, Leo. My sign...I'm not sure if I'm the Lion in need of taming or what, but...after this bit, I'm sure there is no doubt.

[Lyones]

Originally posted by WalesWoman
This part is too much, Percivale is so overcome with guilt and remorse for nearly succombing to temptation, so sure he is unworthy now to continue the Quest for the Grail, that he drives his sword into his thigh. Idiot!

LOL oh, WW, you crack me up!


I like the fact that the maid and crone aspects of the Goddess have joined hands, that they are working as a team, in unison, and that they are using each other's strengths, both going in the same direction, both with the same goal in mind, and because they are one entity, their assets belong to eachother. Where the maid's youth and inexperience makes her feel vulnerable, the crone is able to support her with knowledge and understanding, and likewise, the maid's exuberance carries the crone through any lack of faith she may have in herself, or what she sees as physical weakness, giving her confidence.

[Sophie-David]

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

This is another very different card...the Maid and the Lion are there, hand in hand with an other worldly green Crone atop a serpent. Both women are various aspects of the Goddess, the young blossoming with love of life, innocent enthusiasm while the Crone represents the experience and wisdom that comes with age. Anna-Marie must have been delving a bit into Hebrewism as well, since she mentions serpent in Hebrew means "wisdom."

I'm afraid I really don't like this card, its just so busy with detail. Without the text to guide me I wouldn't have even been able to pick out the crone. The whole snake-crone thing looks like some kind of a nightmare pizza.

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

I thought it odd that the Crone is green, or maybe it's bad lighting. But then to be honest, when I look in the mirror these days at my face, my body, the new wrinkly skin on my hands and arms...I know I must be in some alien body other that the one I grew up with! This just isn't me! But I think that is another side of Strength...getting that young maid I am inside to accept the changes that come with age and experience, to look at them as honor marks for successfully surviving the directions life has taken us. The youth inside gives us the energy and enthusiasm to follow our passions that only the wisdom that comes from experience can channel in a constructive way. (Just wish the maid was less of a mental attitude and her strength more of a physical attribute these days)

Yes, I too am starting to really understand what my first year English Lit. professor said years ago, "Your body betrays you". On the inside I'm feeling younger and more vital every day, but on the outside it doesn't look that way. As you suggested WW, who's the alien?

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

Notice that the Maid rides astride, bareback, holding to the Lion's mane, that's a hard to keep a seat that way, takes a lot of courage, practice, discipline and trust, a good understanding between the rider and the lion to work together. The Crone uses reins, the Snake, almost makes a natural saddle for her so her ride seems more secure, more directed and in control. The symbolism between these two, is that unity, combining assets between equal partners brings strength and energy with direction. They are using all their potential, ah the maid is the motivating passion, the crone is the navaigating mind.

The lion is rearing up on its hind legs - and the maiden's grip on the lion's mane looks rather tenuous, as if she was poorly prepared for the lion's wild exuberance. I'm thinking that without the support from the crone the maiden would be sure to fall off.

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

In the story, Percivale's vision, the young girl and the lion represent Christianity and the Crone represents the Old Religion. Which makes sense, since St. Patrick drove all the serpents from Ireland...which was double speak for driving out the Druids and the worship of pagen gods and goddesses. Makes me wonder if St. George, hailed for slaying dragons...was a Druid hunter. From stories I've read, wode was used to tatoo Druids and as they gained wisdom and status (?) dragons were tattooed on their forearms.

That is a fascinating suggestion - I wonder if there has been any research on St. George as Druid hunter?

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

I sort of think the story bites big time...Percival is on the Quest for the Holy Grail and is tested. He finds himself marooned on an island and sees a battle going on between a serpent and a lion, so he kills the serpent (because in his reasoning the lion was the gentler of the two) ??? Hey I didn't write this story, but the lion thought he was his new best friend after that. That night he dreamed of two women, a young beautiful one riding the lion and an wrinkled old crone riding the serpent. The girl warned him that the next day he would have to battle the strongest of champions and if he failed he would "be shamed til the world's end," and disappeared. Then the crone told him the serpent he had killed was hers, but to make amends he could be her boy toy. He didn't think much of that, but she said she'd have him one way or another.

I suppose lions are more easily anthropomorphized since they are mammals. All things being equal, probably many would favour the lion if a choice really had to be made. But I'm not sure why Percivale wouldn't just let nature take its course and leave the beasts to fight it out. Perhaps he was supposed to instinctually recognize that the lion represented the "new world order".

Certainly the consequence for making this Hobson's choice, a sexual exploitation, seems pretty unfair. But from the story of Gawain and Ragnell in the Nine of Shields, the chivalrous thing may have been for Percivale to accept her terms. And in that case, storybook logic would then transform the crone into a beautiful maiden.

At a psychological level, it would seem that the young man chose the survival of his internal masculine at the expense of his internal feminine. A more healthy choice would have been to try to stop the battle and have each party make peace. This would have taken a real act of courage. Its much easier to choose one side or the other and then go two-on-one against the supposed "enemy". The price of the easy but unwise solution is an internal bondage - in that respect the story is quite accurate.

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

I'm sure Percivale must have been sure he was losing his mind, especially having a spectre, a ghost appear the next morning and told him to be strong, true of heart and the order of chivary. The maid and lion represented the "new law of the holy church, faith, good hope, belief and baptism." He told him the crone who rode the serpent was the old law and a fiend. Oh boy!

Yes, let's just believe any old man spectre who shows up and offers us a complete exegesis. We certainly wouldn't want to trust the feminine wisdom of our dreams! Maybe Percy would be wise to wait a bit and judge the spirit by its fruit (Matthew 7, Galatians 5).

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

Along comes a ship, with a pretty young girl who had been disinherited and banished and wanted Percival's help. He being a knight in shining armor agrees, plus he gets a meal and a way off the island. She was quite charming and he was getting quite drunk and smitten...then he promised to serve only her and obey all of her commands if she would "fulfill his lusty desires" While she's undressing Percivale glimpses the crucifix on the pommel of his sword , made the sign of the cross and that was the end of that! Everything vanished in a cloud of smoke, but not with out the wind roaring her anger at his betrayal.

So OK, this couple is probably not in love, but we do have two consenting adults.

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

This part is too much, Percivale is so overcome with guilt and remorse for nearly succombing to temptation, so sure he is unworthy now to continue the Quest for the Grail, that he drives his sword into his thigh. Idiot!

Hmm, well as least he didn't cut off "the offending part".

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

The old man, who appeared as a spector and warned him that morning, reappeared just then with a ship and explained the beautiful young girl and the old crone, were one and the same- the Devil.

Well, its nice to know that was settled so clearly - NOT!

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

Excuse me! I'm just sick of women always being blamed for men's weaknesses. Before I go on a rant and offend anyone's religion...I do put the blame for most of the sick behavior and divants on this very thing, that sex is evil. Therefore lust is evil, therefore who you lust after must be evil to make you become obsessed by them...since men supposedly have sexual thoughts every 8 minutes...then women are evil for making them have them? ARRRGH!

OK, done with the rant.

Well, thank you for the rant, I quite appreciated it, it was fun - just let me join you for a moment! Unfortunately there's very few organized religions that don't seem to have been organized to promote male superiority, rule by dominance, and female slavery. We either have to go back almost as far as prehistory or explore so-called "primitive cultures" and minority religions to find the promotion of partnership ethics, cooperative governance and sexual equality. Most religions started out well, but then got taken over by the controllers... and unfortunately that is what made them "successful" - might is right. We'll just ignore the fact that both men and women become so aliented from themselves and each other that they are only living half-lives. Then we have two of the aspects of Strength Reversed - the suppression of passion and the use of power to dominate. Its all very efficient really.

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

I like Strength...it's ruled by the constellation, Leo. My sign...I'm not sure if I'm the Lion in need of taming or what, but...after this bit, I'm sure there is no doubt.

Some of my best friends are lions! In this one I do agree with the Golden Dawn dogmatists, for me Strength is expressed by the Sun in Leo.

[snowy25]

For me (alsow a Leo) the strength card represented the co-operation and struggle of the inner and outer world.
The woman is in my vision strict and has all the rules in her people are supposed to live by.
The lion in my opinion as the beast in us who disires and has lust for the flavor in life.
I was surprised when I saw this card where there are not one but two women and two beasts.
It gives an extra dimention to the meaning of the Strength card.
WalesWoman has mentioned the union and struggle of the old and the new in the ages within one person.
I've never seen this in the Strength card.

Alsow the serpent and the old woman seem bigger in the picture.
This seems like a good thing.
With age comes wisdom and in early times people and creatures who were respected where drawn bigger then they were.
Elders then were respected more then the are these days.
These days things aren't about respect and wisdom any more.
Maybe this is a reasen the older and junger women are holding hands.
With the passing of time they need each other to help them.
The junger woman needs the advise and to go where the older woman has been, but not allways does she want it and then moves on a differend direction.
Same goes for the elderly women.
She needs to let go of the girl to become who she must be.
She needs to give wisdom to the junger generation so the age old wisdom of women does not get lost.
But in time they become one.

I hope someone gets this

Snowy25

[Sophie-David]

Hello Snowy

Welcome to the Legend Study Group! I see from your profile you have been working with this wonderful deck. Do you have the companion book A Keeper of Words? It makes the deck a lot more understandable.

This link takes you to Legend: The Arthurian Tarot Index

Yes, I think the lion represents strength in passion (the libido), and the serpent is strength in feminine wisdom. That is an interesting point about the serpent and the crone being made bigger - the serpent is particularly large - I just wish they were both a bit clearer. As you say, each woman will need to let go, but hopefully not until the maiden has brought her lion under control!

Blessings
David

[WalesWoman]

Welcome Snowy! I do get it!

She needs to let go of the girl to become who she must be.

In this day and age, that is really hard to do, since it seems our society, especially in the USA, is afraid of aging or the appearance of age. Ageing gracefully is no longer ok...looking older than 25 is practically unacceptable, so women especially are targeted for cosmetics, anti-aging diet suppliments, creams, surgery, you name it. Not that men don't feel that too, no one wants to hire a mature man, even tho' he may have the most savvy and be more reliable than a younger man, they will hire a younger one because they can get more years from him. This goes for women too. There is very little dignity in old age and very little respect, it doesn't matter what the patient's rights are in theory, when care of the elderly becomes institutionalized and run by corporations...dignity is one of the first things lost.

The ads for Bowflex and other exercise machines...the body beautiful because if it isn't, the message is no one will want you or desire you or value you. It's sick and who needs it? Besides all the companies capitalizing on people's insecurities and feelings of worthlessness drummed into our heads by endless advertisements of youth and beauty.

With age comes wisdom and in early times people and creatures who were respected where drawn bigger then they were.

We need Strength just to not succumb to the false image of what is ideal and love and accept who we really are. Youth passes all to quickly, no wonder the Serpent looms so large...with the advancement of medicine we live longer lives and spend more time living as crones than we ever did as nymphettes.

I enjoyed your post very much Snowy, I hope to see more of your ideas and insights.

[snowy25]

Sophie-David

This is one of the my decks I needed to study on.
It's my newest and I bought it with A Keeper of Swords.
And yes the book is a lot of fun working with and a lot of help understanding the cards, but I don't understand all of the words.
Thank you for the link.
I have it in my favorites buttin.

>As you say, each woman will need to let go, but hopefully not until the maiden has brought her lion under control!

(I don't know how to post the quotes in the posts)

This card is all about control.
Who has it and who doesn't?
The lion? The maidon? The serpant? The elderly woman?
No!
They are there to make us ask these questions and reflect our feelings in the every-day-life.
I think the tarot, when used correctly, is a tool for opening our eyes when we need to.
So the real question is:
Do you as the querrent have this or do you need it when this card shows?
Hmm, I think I could really connect with this card.
For we as persons don't always have the control but when reminded we can learn.
So in outher words the connection could be the maiden is desperatly seeking and the elderly women is giving the trust.
Both women are one.
Of course the are!
It's the querrent's mirror.


WalesWoman

Your post is what I meant to say by struggle and co-operation.
Our culture has shifted to a sociaty that worships the jung and trendy.
There's nothing wrong with being jung but the balance is gone.
Where do the elderly people belong now?
It should be like in this card; side by side.
And once in a wile having seperate lives.
But an idial world doesn't exist.
In fact it never did and most likely it never will be.
And this takes strength to coupe, naïveness to learn and wisdom to share.

I intend to work the cards out in order.
I don't always post but will be in this study group for some time.
Jumping in once in a wile enjoying this journey with you wonderfull people.

Love and light

Snowy25

[Sophie-David]

Originally Posted by snowy25

>As you say, each woman will need to let go, but hopefully not until the maiden has brought her lion under control!

(I don't know how to post the quotes in the posts)

If you press the Quote button at the bottom right of the message box that you want to talk about it will automatically quote the whole message. Then if you only want to quote part of the text, just delete what you don't want.

After a bit of practice you will notice that the quote is always enclosed with words in square brackets, like [ or ]. At the beginning the square brackets will include something like QUOTE=WalesWoman. At the end of the quote there will be square brackets with /QUOTE in them. You can copy or just type these openings and closings wherever you want to break up the quote.

Originally Posted by snowy25

So the real question is:
Do you as the querrent have this or do you need it when this card shows?
Hmm, I think I could really connect with this card.
For we as persons don't always have the control but when reminded we can learn.
So in outher words the connection could be the maiden is desperatly seeking and the elderly women is giving the trust.
Both women are one.
Of course the are!
It's the querrent's mirror.

Yes Snowy, I like that, the "querent's mirror". Yes, the two women are each part of the querent - one or the other may need to be stronger in a situation, or both may need equal balance.

Originally Posted by snowy25

I intend to work the cards out in order.
I don't always post but will be in this study group for some time.
Jumping in once in a wile enjoying this journey with you wonderfull people.

Love and light

Snowy25

I have found this group really does have some wonderful people in it - and you are the latest one!

[WalesWoman]

Thank you Snowy for stressing that hand in hand and lighting up the light bulb in my brain. That is perhaps the real focal point of this card.

In it's simplest form for me, Strength is all about cooperation, working with all of your parts rather than using yourself weaknesses...or strengths for that matter against you.

So often strong emotion is viewed as a weakness, so we repress that in order to be strong...but it works against us in the end. Strength becomes our weakness because we become afraid to work with our feelings or even acknowledge them...be it love, hate, fear, anger, jealousy, even joy.

Strength can be used as a weapon at times to manipulate and control...as you asked so perceptively...

Originally Posted by Snowy25

Do you as the querrent have this or do you need it when this card shows?

Are we acting out of fear and weakness, using our Strengths against ourselves? That is such a good question!!!

Loving and accepting your weaknesses probably isn't as hard as believing in your own strengths. Isn't that ironic? We really are more ready to accept our faults than to acknowledge the things others see as the beauty within us. Not out of false modesty either...but because it's too hard to believe. Strange but true. So we hide from ourselves and others, those private monsters and demons, that would surely make everyone run screaming or throw stones. It's all an illusion...as you said...the querant's mirror. A long time ago I used to read a lot of Ba'Hai' teachings of Baha'ullah (sorry if I misspelled) and what struck me most was his talking about our view of the world and ourselves as looking through a mirror...that was so caked with the dirt and gunk of perceptions...from the way we were treated or the attitudes of those who raised us, that we created a clouded image of ourself from the reflection of others. The only way to see ourselves truly was to clean that mirror and make it shine.

I'm just feeling very reflective right now...must be because I got out the glass cleaner the other day and washed the winter buildup off the windows and the light has just been amazing since then. Or it's the full moon still affecting me very strongly. Or life has just been given more meaning and gotten very precious.

But thank you all so much for raising these thoughts, I needed this.

[snowy25]

Originally Posted by Sophie-David

If you press the Quote button at the bottom right of the message box that you want to talk about it will automatically quote the whole message. Then if you only want to quote part of the text, just delete what you don't want.

After a bit of practice you will notice that the quote is always enclosed with words in square brackets, like [ or ]. At the beginning the square brackets will include something like QUOTE=WalesWoman. At the end of the quote there will be square brackets with /QUOTE in them. You can copy or just type these openings and closings wherever you want to break up the quote.

Thanks for the advise

Originally Posted by Sophie-David

Yes Snowy, I like that, the "querent's mirror". Yes, the two women are each part of the querent - one or the other may need to be stronger in a situation, or both may need equal balance.

With most other Strenght cards I gave myself a standerd awnser.
When this won't do I try to "become part of it's inviorment" and have to try really hard getting the big picture.
At first this one puzzled me.
But the change Anna-Marie brought to it and the guiding book combind with this study group provided me more insight jumping in the card.
I've notesed you do dreams on them.
I prefer jumping in when I'm awake.
I think I would crush the cards at night with my sleeping habbits
Did you have a dream with this one you would like to share?

Originally Posted by WalesWoman

A long time ago I used to read a lot of Ba'Hai' teachings of Baha'ullah (sorry if I misspelled) and what struck me most was his talking about our view of the world and ourselves as looking through a mirror...that was so caked with the dirt and gunk of perceptions...from the way we were treated or the attitudes of those who raised us, that we created a clouded image of ourself from the reflection of others. The only way to see ourselves truly was to clean that mirror and make it shine.

I read something like this.
It realy helped me with things in my life.

Best of luck

Snowy