Le Pendu: epaulettes or fingers?

[jmd]

In the recent thread titled The Hanged Man... death of a Jew in Christian lands?, Shalott draws attention to the 'epaulettes' as they are depicted on the Noblet, Payen and Dodal version of the cards, significantly (perhaps) omitted in the Chosson (& hence also the Conver that appeared nearly a century later).

A number of questions arise, including, of course, whether they are in fact epaulettes.

Personally, I do not see them as epaulettes at all, but rather as the fingers of the perhaps brutally tied Pendu, his elbows joined behind his back, forcing his forearms to dangle in uncharacteristic form, perhaps even broken.

One aspect of the image that further suggests that they are fingers is also the number dangling, and even the end showing what appears to be fingernails. The Noblet even shows what could easily be the thumbs!

For the sake of seeing the image, attached is the Payen.

[Rosanne]

Goodness gracious jmd they do look like fingers.The Grimaud illustration does not show epaulattes, nor my semi fake Burdel. I have nothing else to go on.
Can you scan other cards with the epaulettes. There was another thread where Fulgour talked about epaulettes and said they were increasingly decorative armour. Like on the Chariot. I wonder what the Hadar has on the card? I am quite startled at the thought of fingers- anything about Odin and his hands? ~Rosanne

[Moonbow]

The Hadar doesn't show 'fingers/epaulettes' but here's a scan of the Dusserre Dodal. It's the only deck I have showing these:

[Rosanne]

Thank you Moonbow for the scan. I found in my notes that Fulgour called the epaulettes- Spaulders or Pauldrons. He said if I recall they were made or used by the Mam Luks who were known as the Popes slaves. Very odd- might they be fringed decorations- but I think that is Edwardian Naval and Army - not Medieval. ~Rosanne

[Fulgour]

BAFFLE: a punishment or degradation of a recreant Knight,
including hanging him or his effigy by the heels from a tree.

*

Baffle 1548, "to disgrace," perhaps a Scottish respelling of bauchle
"to disgrace publicly" (especially a perjured knight), prob. related to
Fr. bafouer "to abuse, hoodwink," possibly from baf, a natural sound
of disgust, like bah. Meaning "to bewilder, confuse" is from 1649;
that of "to defeat someone's efforts" is from 1675. The noun sense
of "shielding device" is first recorded 1881.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=baffle

*

[1913 Webster]

Baffle \Baf"fle\ (b[a^]f"f'l), v. t.
[imp. & p. p. Baffled (-f'ld); p. pr. & vb. n. Baffling (-fl[i^]ng).]

[Cf. Lowland Scotch bauchle to treat contemptuously, bauch tasteless,
abashed, jaded, Icel. b[=a]gr uneasy, poor, or b[=a]gr, n., struggle,
b[ae]gja to push, treat harshly, OF. beffler, beffer, to mock, deceive,
dial. G. b["a]ppe mouth, beffen to bark, chide.]

To cause to undergo a disgraceful punishment, as a recreant knight.


He by the heels him hung upon a tree,
And baffled so,
that all which passed by
The picture of his punishment might see.

Sir Edmund Spenser

http://www.dictionary.net/baffle

*

epaulet 1783, from Fr. épaulette, dim. of epaule "shoulder,"
from O.Fr. espaule, from L. spatula "flat piece of wood, splint,"
later "shoulder blade," dim. of spatha "broad wooden instrument,
broad sword," from Gk. spathe "a broad flat sword" (see spade (1)).

épée 1889, from Fr., lit. "sword" from O.Fr. espe, from L. spatha
(see epaulet).

http://www.etymonline.com/

[Fulgour]

With the seventeenth century (1600s) came simpler designs.
In the early years men wore sleeves with epaulet shoulders.

http://www.theweebsite.com/sewing/sleeves/history.html
from: A History of Sleeves (see paragraph six for above)

note:
In the last part of the 14th century, sleeve and tunic hems
were frequently dagged, i.e. cut into pointed, circular
or leaf-shaped scalloped borders.

[jmd]

It is certainly baffling how Le Pendu appears to be treated!

Simply for the sake of adding to the images - this time the Noblet, here it is.

[Shalott]

Thanks for the history, Fulgour, as soon as I saw this thread, I couldn't help but wonder if what I was thinking of was a rather modern invention: http://www.ushist.com/wardrobe/inc/i...ficer_x3_l.jpg but now I wonder, if they are epaulettes, if they were added in the 17th century Tarot, or 14th century if A) they are 'dagged' sleeves and B)if the TdM did indeed exist at this point (I believe it did) and maybe weren't there originally?

(Having been raised in a military family, these are the first things I thought of when I saw the things dangling from his shoulders.)

jmd, O Morbid One, interesting theory for sure! However, the more I read about Tarot history the more I realize that things that today's society considers to be morbid were commonplace back in the day, as another example Flornoy's revelation in "The Journey of the Soul" that La Roue was actually a medieval torture device! The Payen definitely looks like bony fingers...

[Sophie]

I've always assumed these things to be fingers, from the arms tied behind the back at the elbows. But I'm ready to be convinced otherwise

(and his arms? they were cut off?)

[Shalott]

One reason I assumed they were some sort of attachment to his sleeves were: if they are fingers, his arms would have to be in a very unnatural postion, or his hands cut off and atached to his sleeves... is there historical evidence of ppl being hung upside down having their arms broken or hands cut off? I'm sure it's entirely possible...