Darkest Devil

poivre · 31-03-2005

The Hermit has his light, The Tower has lightning for light,
but on the Devil card there is no light at all.
There is no inner light just the shadow of self?

Would the Devil have no light except for the fire of his torch?

Thanks for any comments!

caridwen · 31-03-2005

Yet the torch gives off no light either - it just burns wastefully. But in that case, how are the figures visible at all? Or is that just a matter of pragmatism?

***Grigori*** · 31-03-2005

Lucifer was the brightest of all the angels, and is the light bringer. What does that say about the devil? I dunno...

psychic sue · 31-03-2005

I always think of the torch as the "burning" desire element of this card.

Whether it be for sex, money, whatever.

Just my little input.

Sue

**closrapexa** · 01-04-2005

I disagree about the torch. Lightening as itself gives out very little light, it has only light of it own. The Devil's torch is indeed the light of the truth. The Devil is known as the adversary, the obstacle that we must overcome in order to move on. What better object is there to bring all our hidden desires and fears to light than the torch, the flame that lights up the truth?

Edited to correct grammar and spelling (I was kind of on the drunk side) and to add this:

While the fire may burn and singe us a little in the end it is truly all for the best. For example. in the RWS clone, the Morgan-greer, the light is only a small candle, that gives off an eery geen light, that feels stagnant and full of malaise, which, to me, means something else entirely. The Morgan-Greer Devil is the fear of the dark, of the unknown, fear of fear itself, and ultimately, fear of what you can be, should you decide to rid yourself of that fear, blow out the candle and go into the sunlight.

**Lillie** · 01-04-2005

About that torch...

To me it looks like the torch has set fire to one of the 'little devils' tails.

Does it look like this to anyone else?

If so what can it mean?
That allowing yourself to give in to you baser nature/deepest desires can harm you?
If you play with fire you get burned?

Any thoughts?

***Grigori*** · 01-04-2005

Closrapexa that was GREAT!

I read a quote last night I wanted to share. From Crowley on Atu15:

"But moreover his letter is Ayin, the Eye; he is light, and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, the leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty"

psychic sue · 01-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillie

About that torch...

To me it looks like the torch has set fire to one of the 'little devils' tails.

Does it look like this to anyone else?

If so what can it mean?
That allowing yourself to give in to you baser nature/deepest desires can harm you?
If you play with fire you get burned?

Any thoughts?

The fire in the "tail" - to me represents lust. Lust is one of the seven deadly sins. If sex controls your life - not good.

Sexual urges are probably the strongest urges we feel (in general - I am not trying to be argumentative or start a thread on the hierarchy of human needs!) as it is the force which leads to reproduction of the species.

However, if this becomes the soul focus of your life, then an imbalance is created.

I have posted this before but the pentacle upside down on the Devil's head, isn't about black magic. Its about sexual obsession (IMHO). The pentacle is a diagram of the Vitruvian Man (Da Vinci). If the human body is turned upside down, the sex organs are above the head - sex becomes an obsession.

Sue x

Sophie · 01-04-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by similia

"But moreover his letter is Ayin, the Eye; he is light, and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, the leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty"

Yes - very apt.

The Devil is the Liberator. If we see him as "obsession, greed" etc. it is because we project these things on him. His torch - the torch of the brightest of angels - is also a mirror: what we see looking at it is not him, but ourselves. Therefore, when we get the Devil in a reading, we should rejoice - because the Liberator has arrived - the one who will show us our face, and hand us the torch so that we can truly see all our taboos for what they are - chains. And begin to build ourselves in truth on the ashes of the old slavish morality.

The Devil not polite. He is not tender and he does not care two hoots about our hurt. He knows we can face him or he does not turn up.

It is when he does not turn up that we must worry. For we all need his torch.

psychic sue · 01-04-2005

Helvetica - I agree the Devil is not always a bad card.

Again, relating to sex (I am not obsessed BTW, this is just an illustration!) he can bring the most amazing sexual experiences! Maybe shedding light on to an area we previously had not experienced.

Sometimes we all need a little Lucifer in our lives

poivre Citizen Join Date: 13 Nov 2003 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 6,596	Darkest Devil The Hermit has his light, The Tower has lightning for light, but on the Devil card there is no light at all. There is no inner light just the shadow of self? Would the Devil have no light except for the fire of his torch? Thanks for any comments! Last edited by poivre; 31-03-2005 at 09:46.

31-03-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #1

closrapexa Extemporaneous Join Date: 31 Jan 2004 Location: Israel Posts: 3,547	I disagree about the torch. Lightening as itself gives out very little light, it has only light of it own. The Devil's torch is indeed the light of the truth. The Devil is known as the adversary, the obstacle that we must overcome in order to move on. What better object is there to bring all our hidden desires and fears to light than the torch, the flame that lights up the truth? Edited to correct grammar and spelling (I was kind of on the drunk side) and to add this: While the fire may burn and singe us a little in the end it is truly all for the best. For example. in the RWS clone, the Morgan-greer, the light is only a small candle, that gives off an eery geen light, that feels stagnant and full of malaise, which, to me, means something else entirely. The Morgan-Greer Devil is the fear of the dark, of the unknown, fear of fear itself, and ultimately, fear of what you can be, should you decide to rid yourself of that fear, blow out the candle and go into the sunlight. __________________ "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" Obi-wan Kenobi Last edited by closrapexa; 03-04-2005 at 05:55.

01-04-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #5

caridwen Citizen Join Date: 13 Jan 2005 Location: *** Posts: 7,725	Yet the torch gives off no light either - it just burns wastefully. But in that case, how are the figures visible at all? Or is that just a matter of pragmatism?

31-03-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #2

*Grigori* formerly similia Moderator Join Date: 11 Dec 2004 Location: Aussie boy, born and bred Posts: 7,400	Lucifer was the brightest of all the angels, and is the light bringer. What does that say about the devil? I dunno...

31-03-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #3

psychic sue Citizen Join Date: 14 Jan 2005 Location: Somewhere between the spirit world and UK Posts: 5,233	I always think of the torch as the "burning" desire element of this card. Whether it be for sex, money, whatever. Just my little input. Sue

31-03-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #4

Lillie Frog Join Date: 12 Dec 2004 Location: Nowhere Posts: 11,911	About that torch... To me it looks like the torch has set fire to one of the 'little devils' tails. Does it look like this to anyone else? If so what can it mean? That allowing yourself to give in to you baser nature/deepest desires can harm you? If you play with fire you get burned? Any thoughts?

01-04-2005	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #6

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