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La Justicia + El Diablo= San Miguel Arcángel

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Justice + The Devil = Saint Michael Archangel ?


I was reading your discuttion about the angels and how you see in the Judgement the Archangel Michael but it´s dificult to me cuz one time i was reading in a nigth radial program as a Tarotist Invited( I do that periodically)when some body was asking about a black magic work over him, i don't believe a lot in that, but then a see this two cards togheter, Do you remember the clasis image of San Miguel? He killing the weird demond with his balance and sword? And if you look the position of the hands in the both cards are the same, like opossites clones. All that i felt like a " See, there is much more towards your eyes "...nEVER i'LL FORGET THAT...
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Now that have been having a very grat philosophical chat with Helvi about The Devil card ( http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...2&page=1&pp=10 ) i remind myself of this thread. For me Justice and the iconography of Saint Michael Archangel are the same, they both carrie the sword of TRuTH that destroy the materialistic mirage shown in The Devil card. Illustrating:

"Regardless of which major faith's angelic beings is being followed, Michael ranks as the highest of the host. With Gabriel, Michael is the only angel mentioned in the Bible. In the Aggadah, he is seen as the guardian of Israel. He is the head of all the great warring angels who do battle against evil. Michael is often depicted as winged and with unsheathed sword. In the Renaissance period, he is shown as young, strong, and handsome, wearing a splendid coat of mail and equipped with sword, shield and spear. His wings are generally conspicuous and very grand. He usually holds in his hand the scales of JUSTICE"

http://www.sarahsarchangels.com/archangels/michael.html
http://www.templeofthepresence.org/michael.htm
http://www.michaelminasi.com/Archangel.htm
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The Devil card says: " I'm the evil God "
The Justice card says: "Who is like to G@d?" (that's what Michael means)
I guess is not easy walk on the sword sharp blade, but even so, we must.
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Based upon contrasing pairs positioned opposite:

VIII JUSTICE (not 11) >< XVI THE TOWER
Cancer in the 4th House, Capricorn in 10th

But the sign of Cancer has the Exaltation of Jupiter
and XX JUDGEMENT signifies JUPITER for attribution.

So JUSTICE is the lesser expression of JUDGEMENT.
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Oh, Thanks Fulgour, your response ennobles my post, as always.
I know some of Astrology, but for me is a lack of respect to say i'm an Astrologer.
Then excuse me if i'm offending someone.
I don't knew that system in which you have Justice as Cancer, for me ever was Libra,
I see Cancer in the High Priestess, but i know is not the traditional way. The object is that it seems yours is not neither the traditional system, since for everybody Cancer is the Chariot, and Capricorn The Devil, hmmm.
Also you have surprised me with that relations among the opposites astrologer houses and the cards. I ever uses the decimal system for opposites (for example, if you have The Justice as 8_i'm with you here too- then the opossite for me would be The Moon-18,i mean: the truth and its opposed one the lie and the confusion, to become responsible on one hand, to get lost for the other one.)

May be i was expressing me bad when I said that i saw The Justice and The Devil like opposed (in my system the opposite one to the Devil is The Hierophant), the correct way should be that i saw The Justice as the tool to overcoming The Devil and reach The Temperance.
Neither I haven't been never able to see The Judgement as a biger Justice, cause for me is not Justice what Judgement gives, it's Mercy, a over ordered law that is acting above the ordinate "cause and effect" or "Kharma" that it is the one that The Justice imposes. For me in the Judgement G@D is forgiving our "sins"...hmmm

May be i'm not seeing it well. And i know it, i'm repeting many times the "opposite" word (LOL)
Thanks Foulgour to share your great knowledge and to discuss with me this beatifull issues!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcanoMáximo
The object is that it seems yours is not neither the traditional system, since for everybody Cancer is the Chariot, and Capricorn The Devil, hmmm.
As we study and learn more we also grow and develop.
Waite never really said what his "attributions" were and
yet writers say in their books he intended Golden Dawn
meanings ~ but look: he has The Fool between 20 & 21
not once but three times in his book The Pictorial Key.

We have the better advantage to look at the Tarot itself,
and not a few odd scraps from Golden Dawn notebooks.
That's all there is actually ~ a handful of scribbled notes,
some from Crowley and others about their odd Qabala.

Look at your cards, and begin counting with number one.
From there remember, Justice is 8 and Strength is eleven.
See which letters signify Months and match them to cards.
You now have 12 definite correspondences, a good start.

PS: The Fool has NO number and comes last at "22"
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La Justicia + El Diablo


[QUOTE=Fulgour]As we study and learn more we also grow and develop.
Waite never really said what his "attributions" were and
yet writers say in their books he intended Golden Dawn
meanings ~ but look: he has The Fool between 20 & 21
not once but three times in his book The Pictorial Key.

We have the better advantage to look at the Tarot itself,
and not a few odd scraps from Golden Dawn notebooks.
That's all there is actually ~ a handful of scribbled notes,
some from Crowley and others about their odd Qabala.

Look at your cards, and begin counting with number one.

Very well considered --- "... to look at the Tarot itself...". Reminds me of Hamlet, which warrants a revised version (joke) : "To look at the Tarot itself or not to look at the Tarot itself, that is the Question." Correspondences are useful and promote the synthesis power of the mind, but they can take us away from the Tarot itself. They are only fingers pointing to the moon. Only the moon is the moon, sun sun, star star, etc. "It [Tarot] is the star to every wandering bark." Recently, someone mentioned that, looking at Sirius in the Egyptian Tarot, she went outside early evening to see it. Yes! Not to the book this time, to the Star Itself. Reality to Reality.
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"To look at the Tarot itself or not to look at the Tarot itself, that is the Question." GREAT!!!
Yes, i agree with you two, that's coz i find Cancer in the High Priestess.


"See which letters signify Months and match them to cards"
O.k, i know, don't kill me Peter, i don't wanna bore you but i guess i'm not understanding this correctly, about which "letters" are you speaking around?
Foolish me!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcanoMáximo
...about which "letters" are you speaking around?
"Correspondences" in the Tarot and not simply just made up,
they're part of the structure, based on the Phoenician alphabet.
Yes, the Phoenician alphabet, which came before the Hebrew.

There are 22 letters, just like there are 22 cards in the Majors.
Each letter represents a specific attribute, and 12 are Houses.
They don't appear in "order" because the alphabet is organic,
a living creation that gently unfolds, naturally, letter by letter.

The 12 Houses and the 12 letters that correspond to them match
the 12 Tarot cards that appear in the order the letters also appear:

he V The Hierophant = Aries
waw VI The Lovers = Taurus
zayin VII The Chariot = Gemini

heth VIII Justice = Cancer
teth IX The Hermit = Leo
yodh X The Wheel of Fortune = Virgo

lamedh XII The Hanged Man = Libra
nun XIV Temperance = Scorpio
samekh XV The Devil = Sagittarius

ayin XVI The Tower = Capricorn
tsade XVIII The Moon = Aquarius
qoph XIX The Sun = Pisces


This is true, has always been true, and will always be true.

~Fulgour

*

Click On:
http://www.ancientscripts.com/phoenician.html

The Phoenician script is an important "trunk" in the alphabet tree,
in that many modern scripts can be traced through it. Arabic, Hebrew,
Latin, and Greek scripts are all descended from Phoenician. (quote)

The 7 planets can be (like any 7 things) ordered 5,040 different ways.
There is no remaining text from the Phoenicians, but this is definitely
NOT about kabbalah. Tarot and kabbalah are totally separate things.

Work out your own order. I have, and I'm very happy with it.

Aleph Mem and Shin are 1, 13 and 21. The Fool comes merrily behind.
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Peter, you are one of the most generous beings here, don't you? Thanks to take the time to teach me this, i'll study it better from now. Sure is very valuable!!!!
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