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Why would you want to know if some one is gay?


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Why would you want to know if some one is gay?


Quote:
Originally Posted by psychic sue
This question has come up many times before, and I will respond with my usual answer, which no one has actually explained to me yet - Why do you want to know who is gay or straight?
May she forgive me for kidnapping her post, but I felt that it was the best opener for a thread like this, and it is true that the questions has yet to be answered. Speaking for myself, I do not feel that I would want to know, since I see no real difference in reading for gay men, women or straight people. The very question implies something that I mysekf feel somewhat uncomfortable with. Is being gay something that is "other"? A problem that it it is important that you must pick up on?
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I would only want to know if I was contemplating dating someone and I had doubts; or if I had doubts about someone I was already with.

I might want to know about a child of mine, if I thought it was causing them anxiety to "come out" - but more in the spirit of love than curiosity or judgement. I wouldn't force the issue, however.

But I'm not sure I'd do it with the Tarot, in either case. I might ask the tarot how I can handle it if my loved one is gay (particularly if it is a partner of mine).

For the moment these questions are purely speculative in my own case, but I know that if a querent came to me and said - I suspect my husband is gay - is he? I wouldn't judge her and would do the reading, with more than usual cautionary words. I might also add to a spread a card to mean: how she can deal with it? or - how she can approach her husband about it? (very tricky that one).

We had a case like that in the family - an uncle of mine came out when he was in his late forties. My aunt (and everyone else in the family) had actually suspected for a long time but she didn't know how to approach it, deal with it, etc. She felt very alone with her doubts. When he came out it was difficult for her and their daughter, because he had fallen madly in love with a man and expected her to entertain the man and his family (his lover was a bisexual married man with children - my uncle, though married, thinks of himself as gay rather than bisexual)! So they never really had time to discuss the issue serenely. Maybe if she'd had a tarot reading and had time to let it sink in, things might have been different? She is a very open-minded woman, who herself had a couple of love affairs with women before she married. I don't know. It was hard for both of them, I know. I love and respect them both, so I'm sad it happened that way. It's OK now (this was about 15-20 years ago).
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Thanks for starting this thread, Closrapexa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa
Is being gay something that is "other"?
Only in as far as I have to define that I end somewhere and "others" begin (in this lifetime and on this plane - but that's another story!). For everybody else, I may be "other" insofar as I have a separate existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa
A problem that it it is important that you must pick up on?
Definitely not a problem to me on a personal level. However, a lot of readings concern love or relationships and it gets tiresome to talk of "they" when you're not sure of a client's sexuality: I'm a hetero woman and I might unthinkingly fall into talking about "he" for women and "she" for men: a gay man or woman might find that offensive. Equally, if I wrongly felt that the client might be gay and they're not (or they haven't realised yet) it could cause equal offense.

As has been pointed out, it may be important to the querent. And I can understand that if someone is contemplating or in a relationship with a person they're not sure about it could be a problem. I don't know how I'd react to a querent's request to find out. Interesting to contemplate.

[i][Edited to add: Helvetica - sorry to hear about the heartache caused for your uncle and aunt at the time, but the world has changed a lot since then and they really were way ahead of their time! It's wonderful that everything's in the past and you've been able to keep a relationship with both of them.]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion
[i][Edited to add: Helvetica - sorry to hear about the heartache caused for your uncle and aunt at the time, but the world has changed a lot since then and they really were way ahead of their time! It's wonderful that everything's in the past and you've been able to keep a relationship with both of them.]
Yes, but it wasn't the world that was the problem, because they're not in social circles where being gay or bisexual is considered "other" - both my uncle and aunt are artists - although of course coming out to the wider world was difficult for my uncle and I have great respect for him for having gone through with it and say at last who he is. The trouble was linked the way it was handled within their relationship, how they were unable to discuss it lovingly (or at all, for that matter) before my uncle's coup de foudre struck him (and even after). They had been married nearly 20 years and had a daughter. That's why I wonder if it might not have been helpful for my aunt to have a tarot reading about it.

They are still together. Like Oscar Wilde who still loved his wife despite falling in love with Bosie, my uncle and aunt still loved each other. She is now an old lady (12 years his senior) and he wouldn't dream of abandoning her.
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Ah yes - my favourite uncle (and substitute father) is a very talented artist and I grew up in those circles. He himself is so vehemently straight one has to wonder sometimes! But of course a lot of his friends weren't.

"Coup de foudre" is a wonderful way of putting it! A tarot reading may well have helped your aunt but it doesn't seem to have occurred to her to have one back then. It sounds rather as though, while others suspected, your uncle may have tried to deny or ignore it in himself until he fell so madly for this particular man that he couldn't help himself. As you say, so sad they couldn't talk about it when your aunt was obviously very open-minded but it wasn't to be. Wonderful that they were eventually able to progress through it and stay together. I believe it is perfectly possible to love more than one person and in different ways at the same time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa
May she forgive me for kidnapping her post, but I felt that it was the best opener for a thread like this, and it is true that the questions has yet to be answered. Speaking for myself, I do not feel that I would want to know, since I see no real difference in reading for gay men, women or straight people. The very question implies something that I mysekf feel somewhat uncomfortable with. Is being gay something that is "other"? A problem that it it is important that you must pick up on?
ugh. I am tired of this question. lol! Ok, agree or not, I don't think that USUALLY it's some ulterior motive reason or evil plan to blackmail. lol! Just plain and simple wanting to know, perhaps because they themselves are gay and want to know about someone they like at a distance. Simple. You can argue it to the ground, that it doesnt matter, blah blah blah. All the common sense stuff applies. But, boiled down to pure simplicity, it's probably just that they like someone and want to know what their chances are. May not be the right way to do it, but oh well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion
As has been pointed out, it may be important to the querent. And I can understand that if someone is contemplating or in a relationship with a person they're not sure about it could be a problem. I don't know how I'd react to a querent's request to find out. Interesting to contemplate.
Exactly! That's usually all it is.
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I've been thinking about this.
I think as a lesbian, when I see people asking the question:
"What card means someone is gay?" I get offended.
The reason I get offended is because my initial thought is that the person trying to ascertain this has less than pure intentions. Of course I realize I shouldn't assume that.

I keep thinking "why?", why would anyone need to know that?
If you are dating someone, and you think that the only reason it wouldn't work out is if the other person is gay, then you obviously don't know much about relationships. If a person is gay, and you're not the same gender, any spread to determine whether or not the relationship will work, should indicate that it won't. I don't see the benefit of using such a limiting question.

But I continue to try to find a reason to determine whether or not someone is gay -

Perhaps you have a teenage child who appears withdrawn or depressed, and you don't know why. (Of course you've exhausted all other ways of finding out what's wrong with the child, including the obvious, communication).
Perhaps...I can see value in a spread to indicate whether or not the child is experiencing sexual identity issues.

But... what if you do a spread about your child and the magical indicators (as prescribed by forum members) comes up, declaring your child to be queer.
Then what? What if that isn't their issue at all, but you go down that path with them and only make matters worse?
See. I can't come up with any good reason for someone to try to determine this with cards. It's something that the majority of people simply do not understand, and therefore shouldn't be using cards to figure out if someone is or isn't, this thing they don't understand.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion. Being a gay person myself, I can't exactly see this issue without bias. However on the other hand, I do think the opinions of gay people on this issue should be taken into consideration. (even though I realize they will vary).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionQuest
I keep thinking "why?", why would anyone need to know that?
If you are dating someone, and you think that the only reason it wouldn't work out is if the other person is gay, then you obviously don't know much about relationships. If a person is gay, and you're not the same gender, any spread to determine whether or not the relationship will work, should indicate that it won't. I don't see the benefit of using such a limiting question. )
Who says anything about the only reason a relationship might not work? It might not actually break up the relationship at all, though it might strain it (see my post on my uncle and aunt). It is not my intention to offend and I fail to see what is offensive in wondering if my lover, husband or wife - or prospective - might be gay, if my intuition might be saying it is the case. You are presumably not in a heterosexual relationship so the question does not arise where you are concerned. But for those gay people who are and who might be discovering (or starting to admit) a new sexual orientation to themselves, and the partner senses it - don't you think it natural that the partner want to know?

If you were to feel your lover had discovered/realised she was not gay but straight, wouldn't you want to know? this isn't about prurience, but simple honesty and lucidity in one's relationship.

Surely that is a good reason to ask oneself those questions. Whether it's with tarot or not is another matter entirely. I happen to think communication is the best policy between couples of all sexes and affiliations.

I wasn't going to tell this story, but I shall. A very dear old friend of mine - a gay man - a few years ago fell in love with a lovely guy. The guy had been married to a woman and was divorced (no children). They moved in together and went through the PACS (that's a civil partnership contract). Then not long ago my friend and I were talking. He said he suspected his partner still was attracted to women, that he was bisexual after all. I didn't really know what to answer. I sensed it too. My friend did not ask for a reading and I didn't offer, but he did want to discuss it and ask my what my own "reading" of the situation was, which I gave, as honestly as I could. A month later my friend called and said he and his partner had discussed it at his initiative, and the partner had said yes, it was true. My friend sounded relieved, if a little sad (there isn't a woman in the other guy's life - just a realisation of his bisexuality, which I think is a difficult thing to live with). My friend also told me that if he'd not asked the question - to himself and to me - first, he'd have gone on feeling unhappy about something without putting his finger on it. As I write, they continue as a very close couple, and my friend has decided he would worry about women the day one comes along. He himself is not an angel of physical fidelity, I know (but emotionally faithful).
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I read often for gay men and women, bisexual men and women, and straight men and women. I think there's almost an even split between them all, mostly because I'm in Uni and the people I am surrounded by tend to be quite diverse and accepting with sexuality.

But I have never ever found any difference in reading for straight people, gay people, or bisexual people. (Though I have learned, in relationship readings, not to assume anything and just say he/she.)

I can see why some people might want to find out if somebody is gay, but I have a big problem with the statement (that is often made, but luckily hasn't been made on this thread) that there are specific cards that can indicate a gay person. Gay people are just as diverse in personality and lifestyle as heterosexual people, so why stick them to a few specific cards just because of their sexuality?

Kiama
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