Thirteen

I'm finding some of the reversals interesting and wanted to chat a bit about them. Generally, reversals in tarot are the energy of the card "blocked"--but Wong has his own twist here. In some cases, the reversals are, indeed, the reverse. If the card has a positive meaning, the reverse is negative. If the card has a negative meaning, the reverse is positive--witness Two/pents for example, where upright is: you can juggle and multitask, and reversed is: you can't manage all these things, you can't keep them in the air. Very simple and straightforward reversal of meaning.

HOWEVER, in some of the cards, he seems to have taking the upright meaning and split it. For example, Five/Cups. The usually meaning of this card is that you're crying over spilled milk, focusing on what you've lost. BUT! the upright card also points out that there are two cups still standing and a wise person will focus on those. Typically, a reversal of this card might well indicate that there are no cups standing, that all had been lost (turn over the card and those up-right two cups spill out their contents, yes?).

What Wong has done, however, is split the card. Upright, has the meaning that the person is focused on the spilled cups. Reversed has the meaning that the person, while regretting the loss, has seen that there are two cups standing and is hopeful.

And then there are cards where the reversal isn't reversed. Take the Devil Card where the upright meaning is: a man driven by "material lusts and desires" and the reversed meaning is:a man who cares only for the "fulfillment of his own desires." There's very little difference between these two outside of the upright being more in control. There's certainly not a "reversal" of meaning. This is problematic as the Devil card can have positive meaning. Yet Wang ignores that giving us duo negatives, the reversed just being a worser version of the upright.

And, finally, there is the strange instance of the Page/Cups. What's strange about this card is that it can't be "reversed." the "reversed" or lower image is meant to be viewed from the upright position--as is the upright image.

Understand--I don't have any real problem with Wong playing fast and lose with his reversed meanings. I rather like what he's done. HOWEVER, I can see some objection to the fact that he isn't always consistent with how he presents reversals. They're not always "reversed" meanings--and there's little rhyme or reason as to when they are. Why, after all, is the negative 4/Cups positive when reversed (not taking action vs. taking action), but the 5/Swords isn't (failure and sorrow over failure respectively)?

GoldenWolf

I got this deck a few weeks. I ordinarily don't read with reversals and use other methods to determine if a card should be read with a positive/negative meaning. However, I saw some of the cards online, liked the artwork, and thought it might be interesting to experiment with reading reversed with this particular deck. So I looked them over after I bought them, checking for damaged or missing cards. This is usually a pretty cursory process. I immediately noticed that the "reversals" were often just an even more negative view of some of the cards traditionally regarded as negative. Other were outright reversed meanings. As you point out, there is little consistency to this. I thought maybe I was just being resistent to reading reversals (being old and set in my ways lol) so I showed them to my boyfriend who agreed with me.
Basically I put the deck away and haven't done anything with it since. I still think the artwork is well done, but I'd find it hard to ignore the reversals in reading with it. I know if I read for other people at fairs and so on, they are going to ask about it if only because they haven't seen a deck like it before. Maybe I should check out the study group threads. Sometimes other people can shed light on aspects of cards that I haven't seen. I suspect though that I am likely stuck with another "pretty" but useless deck for divination.

bladeraven

It does throw one off ALOT when dealing with a very unique deck like this...I think that with a deck like this..it helps to really....not share it with other people just yet......I can see interesting arguments as they are literally going to see the "reverse" of what your seeing and will try to go well then what about that...okay...did I lose everyone on that point yet??

What I've been trying too do when dealing with these reversals is I will read the book....get an overall idea of what it means but have been really relying more on just personal intuition versus whats written......

I think in cases like this....it sometimes help to kinda..conveniently "Lose the book" and try reading without it......

sunflowr

Can you share what some of your other methods are?

Also... you could just go ahead and treat Revelations as you do any other deck. Just because the deck has reversed art doesnt neccesarily mean one HAS to read it that way. Maybe stick to one of your methods instead. Or use the deck in landscape mode and read the art both ways.

I have the Revelations. I love it. But then again, I'm not very familiar with reversed meanings. I've never done it before. Many are saying the reversed meanings arent quite what they are used to. (?????)

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Flavio

The intention to use reversals is pretty obvious on this deck, actually I think reversals are the personality of the Revelation (Adflatus) Tarot, but as with many other things related to Tarot reading the people who doesn't want to use reversal is free and entitled to avoid them, even with this deck.

So, what to do then? my first idea is that every card on this deck can be read pretty much like the tricky 5 of Swords from the RWS, for me the intepretation of this card depends on which character relates the querent more (the winner or the loser) querents would decide which part of the card (upside/recerse) shows the situation better.

psychicbody

Oh, god the Five of Cups is a pain in the ass to read, as is several other cards! I was not sure if my understanding was flawed, or if he actually was being inconsistant with his reversals.
Now that I know this, I am going to make more of an effort to bring consistancy. I think the reversal should be either "blocked/subdued" or simply the opposite. A better way to do it would be to make the Minor reversals blockages and the Majors opposites. This is because the Minors are typically less profound than the Majors, so any reversal of a Minor will have less of an impact on the card's meaning.

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"I'm in you and you're in me... It is time, to break the chains of life. If you fallow you will see, what's beyond reality." --Enigma, 3:4

Flavio

This sounds interesting I can see me doing it with the RWS deck, have you tried it before? if so I'd love to read your experiences. Thank you.

psychicbody

I usually do stick with the opposite, or use the card's "energy" turned against itself. For example, a Three reversed would be: lack of resources and deconstruction, but it can also mean anarchy; all depending on the suit. In Numerology, Three means "creation" and investment, so that number inverted would be something that causes those things to fall out of your grasp.
It really depends on the spread and where the card falls into position, so I cant say I always use the opposite meanings. For purposes of consistancy, it does seem to make more sense to apply that principle to the majors, more than the minors, if possible.

Mabie I'll read cards for you, sometime, so you can see.

__________________
"I'm in you and you're in me... It is time, to break the chains of life. If you fallow you will see, what's beyond reality." --Enigma, 3:4

Flavio

Thnak you very much for your quick answer, I understand your point better now. As for the reading that would be lovely! I'll PM you for details. Thank you.