Who's down with the pips?

Fulgour

they're out there

Dewrust said:
Prediction Tarot
Stark and realistic paintings. This deck gives the impression of antiquity without the antiquated painting style. This one, I think, is a must and goes further than the marseille deck.
Click to expand...
I've noticed that if you're looking for this deck
it has a way of turning up... keep an eye out.
 

Sophie

Dewrust said:
Prediction Tarot
Stark and realistic paintings. This deck gives the impression of antiquity without the antiquated painting style. This one, I think, is a must and goes further than the marseille deck.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't agree at all that it goes further and deeper than a venerable old deck which has a rich tradition - you have to learn the Marseille to know it, and some people have spent a lifetime studying it and still do not call themselves experts: so your dismissal is rather unfortunate (not to mention uninformed). But I do agree that as a rule, if a deck calls to you, you will probably get on with it very well.

BTW - I love the Secret Forest and the Haindl too. In fact, I am busy studying the Haindl as we speak - it's blowing my mind. The Secret Forest I find gives gentle and eccentric readings. It's wonderful for meditative or nostalgic readings. And it's beautiful.

I would not read other non-scenic decks like the Marseille. The Marseille has a tradition, and much of my reading of it dips - more or less deeply - into that tradition - of numerology, of geometry, kabbalistic associations, etc, without (hopefully) being enslaved to it. That is - imagination and intuition play a strong role, hand-in-hand with tradition. With modern non-scenic decks, unless they come with strong esoteric authorship (e.g. Thoth), the interpretation is looser. With the exception of the Thoth and possibly El Gran Tarot Esoterico (but I'm still very much stumbling around with that one), I would say most non-scenic decks have not the simple, shining depth of the Marseille. Even the beautiful Crystal - as rich as it is! But it has great charm and I love reading with it.

As for books: with the Marseille there are few books in English. The tradition is mainly French, with some Spanish and Italian. But there is a growing resource in English on this site and other fora, which gives a good introduction to the tradition - both intellectual and interpretive. I do not use the RWS meanings in the interpretation of Marseille, but sometimes the meaning will be the same in a reading. But then, I do not believe in strict meanings for the RWS either! For the other non-scenic decks, it is very much a matter of fishing around for information. Some decks will have books authored by their creator or someone working with the creator (e.g. The Eden; and of course the Thoth!) - and some not. The Crystal, for instance, has no book in English or French - I'm not sure if it has a book in Italian. So my approach has been imaginative/intuitive and also based on research into the numerology and geometry Elisabetta Trevisian used (she based her tarot on El Gran Tarot Esoterico, which has quite a bit of literature associated to it - but I also looked at geometric symbolism, etc.). But in any case, there are no spoon-feeding books for non-scenic decks (at least in English. In French you will find umpteen "tarot made easy" books on the Marseille - of varying quality, like their English-RWS counterparts). That makes them more challenging - and that's the fun :D.

Whichever you go for - enjoy!
 

Lee

Helvetica said:
Well, I don't agree at all that it goes further and deeper than a venerable old deck which has a rich tradition - you have to learn the Marseille to know it, and some people have spent a lifetime studying it and still do not call themselves experts: so your dismissal is rather unfortunate (not to mention uninformed).
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Well, I for one love the Marseille, but there are certainly newer decks which indeed go further for me. And I don't consider myself particularly uninformed. Different strokes for different folks.

-- Lee
 

Sophie

Lee said:
Well, I for one love the Marseille, but there are certainly newer decks which indeed go further for me. And I don't consider myself particularly uninformed. Different strokes for different folks.
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I'd not dare call you uninformed, Lee - I've read too many of your posts :D. But I still don't agree that the Predictions is deeper than the Marseille - so maybe a suitable phrase would be "I [name] go deeper with X deck than with the Marseille" ? (or in my case: I go deeper with the Marseille than with X deck). Will that do? I was arguing against the dismissal of such a great tradition - but not against personal choice based on experience and knowledge. Maybe that little bit of me that has been mentored by V-The Pope is keen to see tradition given some measure of respect.

Major Tom's tarot - though I've only been privileged to see some cards on the internet - is a modern interpretation of the Marseille - a very creative engagement with tradition. I really admire you, Major Tom, for that engagement.
 

Fulgour

Hush, Hush, Sweet Tarot

Dewrust said:
What decks do you pip-card-readers read? Is it your favorite or one of the favorites you have? What do you get from the readings with pip decks that are different from your readings with all-around painted decks?
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I've been trying to visualise an imaginary deck in my mind
since reading this... Majors simply marked with a numeral,
minimalist Minors printed with just suit, name, number...

Colours and patterns for an attractive presentation perhaps,
but little more than that, something gently plain as possible.
 

Dewrust

Helvetica said:
I'd not dare call you uninformed, Lee - I've read too many of your posts :D. But I still don't agree that the Predictions is deeper than the Marseille - so maybe a suitable phrase would be "I [name] go deeper with X deck than with the Marseille" ? (or in my case: I go deeper with the Marseille than with X deck)
Click to expand...

I can only concede to your point!
I'm taken further by the imagery of the Prediction Tarot than I am with the Marseille Tarot, I unfortunately must admit. This deck obviously has its roots firmly planted and though I shrugged it away quickly, carelessly, I've been forced to recognize the following it has and how its intricate form really inspires readers.

But... it's just a big 'eh' for me. Haha... oh dear.
Well? Can't help it!

Now, I just looked at El Gran Tarot Esoterico... and whoa! It looks really intense. I'm seeing alot of esoteric symbolism in such simple illustrations. "Big things come in small packages."

Isn't Haindl great? And Secret Forest?
Are you reading the companion books for Handl, Helvetica?

The book I mentioned earlier, something metaphysical approach to tarot, turned out to be a bunch of fluff. Didn't help at all. I remember, though, that the first book I ever bought on the tarot had numerology and some esoteric information. The Magical World of Tarot... Gareth Knight. An old book I dismissed when I was a beginner because I didn't understand it and it was taking to long to learn. Reading it now I'm realizing it had some really great information and it's changing how I see the tarot. Can't stop it, can't stop change.
 

Lee

Helvetica said:
Will that do? I was arguing against the dismissal of such a great tradition - but not against personal choice based on experience and knowledge. Maybe that little bit of me that has been mentored by V-The Pope is keen to see tradition given some measure of respect.
Click to expand...
Well, the only problem I have with that is that I don't believe there's any one monolithic tradition that is universally agreed-upon (or if there is, I haven't found it, and would welcome being directed to it!). For instance, you mention geometry, numerology, and kabbalistic associations, but many people, myself included, aren't convinced that the pip cards of the Marseille were designed with any such things in mind, or that they were designed with anything at all in mind other than playing card games with. Of course we can invent our own systems of meaning and association to read with them, or use someone else's, but I don't believe it's necessary to study all kinds of history and esotericism before one approaches the Marseille. Although I certainly would agree that doing so has its own rewards. :)

Specifically, what I worry about is people thinking they have to swallow encyclopedias before approaching certain decks. I prefer to nibble. :)

-- Lee
 

Akka

One good book - imho - to start to learn non illustrated decks is Gail Fairfield's Everyday Tarot. It has been a good foundation for me to start to understand numbers combined with elements. I'm not comfortable with everything she says, though, but I like its simplicity. Her keywords are ones I wanted to memorize and it has been fun to add new layers of information for them from other sources.:)
 
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