Marteau's numbers

[Lee]

If anyone out there has access to Paul Marteau's book, would it be possible to post a brief description, or even just keywords, indicating the meanings he uses for the numbers Ace through 10 (and the Court ranks as well, if he has generic meanings for the ranks)? Apparently he pioneered the suit+number method of reading the pip cards, and I'd be very interested in knowing what meanings he used for the numbers.

It would be very much appreciated!

-- Lee

[Sophie]

Hi Lee - I have it, but not to hand - it's in my flat and I am housesitting for my parents. I'll be popping back to my place tomorrow or Monday, so give me a couple of days, unless someone else can do it before then.

[Lee]

Thank you!

-- Lee

[mythos]

I'm up for some learning here too!

mythos

[Sophie]

Sorry it took so long. Translated from Marteau pp 103-4:


GENERALITIES ON NUMBERS FROM 1 TO 10 AND MODALITIES ACCORDING TO WHICH THE SYMBOLISM OF NUMBERS WAS ADAPTED TO THE MINOR ARCANA

1
The Ace represents the unit considered as a point of departure and as a synthesis summarising the meanings of the 9 followig numbers.

2
The number 2 is the symbol of passivity, of polarity and of the elements of gestation [NB: this expression "the elements of gestation" doesn't make much sense to me in either language]. As passive polarity it is without effect, but as gestation it is the substance of all developments.

3
The number 3, by its 2+1, introduces activity in the passivity of the 2, which gives direction to its gestation.

4
The number 4, produced by 2x2, contains a cristallisation and, as an intermediary between 3 and 5, a transition. Therefore it represents relative stability and, as a consequence, things that fall in place and tend towards a consolidation of themselves - towards security.

5
The number 5 is a number of transition, of passage from one plane to another, because it is composed of 1+4, 4 being a complete number, to which is added a unit (1), that is, a beginning. The base of 4, on which it depends to create the next number, gives it a sense of multiplicity and diffusion by radiation.

6
The number 6 represents a harmonious balance, being formed of 3+3, that is, two tertiaries that oppose each other, and of 2x3, implying the simultaneity of these tertiaries, and by consequence, their balance. In its basic sense, it means a latent power, a potential, that is, the reserves from which we can draw.

7
The number 7 = 6+1, indicates, by the presence of the unit (1), strength, action that utilises the power contained within the 6. It puts it in motion, while maintaining its harmony, and therefore shows completion with success. It is a number of synthetic realisation.

8
The number 8= 4+4 brings together the cross and the square, that is - stability in the material plane [balanced] with inner life in the divine plane. It is not an abstract balance, like the 6, but it marks an ending, because it does not need to be animated by other currents. It is the symbol of the infinite, being formed by two circles together, which, when traced in the same direction, grow one into the other indefinitely.

9
The number 9 represents the abstract turning towards the concrete. The first eight numbers showed matter animated by the divine; in the 9, which is 8+1, we oblige the 8, which is a perfect number, to take on another unit (1), that is a new action, and therefore to start a new cycle. This implies that strength penetrates anew into matter, similar to what happens when a virtually conceptualised universe becomes material, in order to experience its own evolution.

10
While 1 synthesised in all their principles the numbers it precedes, the 10 condenses them in itself, because it takes part in all of them through its zero, which links them in their potentials and orients them towards a new cycle through the 1 that accompanies the zero. It is, furthermore, the number of reason and of calm, because, while in the 9, the abstract met the material, in the 10 it is now balanced in that material, because 10=2x5.

Conclusion
The Minor Arcana stop at 10, because if they went beyond that number and reached 12, which is a culmination, they would have no link to the material and would remain inaccessible to human understanding.


Note: Marteau's French is not very elegant, and my translation even less so - I am desolated, to use a proper gallicism

[tmgrl2]

Thank you, Lee, for asking for this translation ...

and Helvetica, for taking the time to do so!

Much appreciated...

I wonder if "elements of gestation" may indicate a "catalyst" of sorts?

One and Two can "join" to "create?"

Just thinking as I type....

Again, thank you both! I have printed to keep with my references to numbers....

terri

[Lee]

Thank you so much, Helvetica! You are my hero. I realize translation is a tedious task, and it was really more than I had a right to expect, that someone would actually do it, but you did! You have my undying gratitude.

It's very interesting that many of his number meanings coincide with the sort-of-Pythagorean meanings that many tarotists use nowadays. Some of them also coincide with Qabalistic tree-of-life meanings.

I am more desolated than you, Helvetica, for I have no French at all... and this despite several years of French in high school!

Thanks again --
Lee

[Sophie]

You know, a while ago I considered translating the whole book. But having attempted this short passage, I think not. Marteau's language is unnecessarily convoluted. Straight translation was still easier that trying to summarise his thinking. If I see more in the book (I've not read it cover-to-cover, I admit, I tend to consult it according to need) that is relevant, I'll post it.

Yes - I see his interpretation crop up in a lot of modern glosses - including in English. I wonder if he & Waite/Colman Smith came to much of the same conclusions based on Pythagoras, or if he knew their work...few Frenchmen of his generation knew English, so I doubt it.

Lee - I'll get my own back when I start grilling you on a few of the Gay Tarot cards which I am not sure I understand (I received it in a trade recently and have completely fallen in love with it!)

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Helvetica

Lee - I'll get my own back when I start grilling you on a few of the Gay Tarot cards which I am not sure I understand (I received it in a trade recently and have completely fallen in love with it!)

Absolutely! I'm at your disposal. And there's a Gay Tarot Study Forum where you can read comments of others, which are usually much more insightful than mine.

-- Lee

[mythos]

Thank you Helvetica,

This is very helpful indeed. So much work. When I try to translate LWB's it is more 'gist' thinking than anything else, because , even with a French dictionary, a few grammars, and my 1962-1969 French classes, I work with more arse than class (Australianism ). I watch quite a few French movies here on TV, but it is so hard not to read subtitles ....

To translate a whole book ... eeeee! ... because it isn't the words so much as the meaning that you need to translate ... and how difficult is that

you are indeed multiply cool and

mythos