Cards that stand out.

[Lighthouse]

Hey Everyone, this is my first time posting, so I to apologize in advance if this has already been covered. I've noticed that the Major Arcana are atributed a Hebrew letter and class indicator ( zodiac, plantary, elemental ). Most of the cards have the Hebrew letter on the right and their class division on the left except for The Magus, The Moon, and The Universe. Were these three meant to stand out ? Is there a special relationship between these three ?

Thanks

[Dwaas]

Welcome Lighthouse!

Most of the cards have the Hebrew letter on the right and their class division on the left except for The Magus, The Moon, and The Universe.

I had to check my normal sized Thoth (as it is not trimmed like my pocket version ) and it is the other way around. Most cards have the Hebrew letter on the right, except for the ones already mentioned. It is a Dutch translated version by the way. So this leaves the question unanswered.
Now I want to know too!!!
Anyone?

Blessings

[Lillie]

Dunno.

I've heard about this, but never bothered to look.

This is how I see it.

In the 'Book of Thoth' you have all the cards and they all have borders and the symbols on the borders.
Now, compare this to the actual cards, particularly up top where the number is.
They are different.
Very similar, but different.

Wether or not the borders are present on the actual paintings or not, I do not know.
But, it seems to me that the borders that are on our cards are a copy, or an imitation of some other borders that exist somwhere, either just in the book, or on the actual pics too.
Thes copys are not exact, as you can see.
So, How are the symbols in the book?
That's what you need to be loking at!

[Dwaas]

Hello Lillie,

you wrote:

So, How are the symbols in the book?
That's what you need to be loking at!

That is what I need to be looking at? So no more deck needed? Just the book?
I thought it was a nice question and I was impressed that Lighthouse found these differences. We do not all have or read the book (I do have the book, got it as a present in English and I find it very hard to read!) so I expected a less strong emphasized answer. Thanks anyway for taking time to respond.
Blessings

[Lillie]

Oh take me wrong, why don't you?

Of course you need the damn deck, and it is an interesting question.

My point was that the deck is what a publisher has done with the original pictures.

We cannot get at the original pictures, and when it comes to the borders (an the symbols on the borders) it seems to me that the nearest we can get to what was originally intended is by looking at the borders as they are shown in the book which I think predates the first published deck. In fact it really was the first published deck, but that's another thread.

They are different, in the book and in the deck (all decks)
I thought it might bring us closer to what Crowley intended by examining them there.

But, right now it's late. I have spent ages failing to get into the Evan Show site, I am narked.
Not by you. By almost everything except you.
By life in general, and stupid useless computers in particular.
I'm having cold sweats, it's been raining all day.

I'm going to roll a fag and turn the fool thing off.

The book is interesting. It comes cheap on ebay (if you don't mind the pages falling out, like mine)
Crowley is a maniac, but a funny one.
Some days the book seems to hold the secrets of the universe, other days it looks like nonsense.

I didn't mean to sound like the book was all.
It's not.

But, if (as has been said) the symbols are different on different printings, we need to get as close to the source as we can.

Good night

[Lillie]

OK.

I have been checking.

In my very old Thoth there are no Hebrew letters etc. Just the plain borders.

On my greenie the Hebrew letters are all on the left, the other symbols on the right. Without exeption.

This is the large grren thoth in the OTO box.
However it is a very late printing of that. Perhaps the last as it mentions a website on the box and email in the LWB.
It is also extreemly green.
Far greener than I remember my first deck being.

So, I dug out the book, untied the thing that holds it together and checked that.

As in Lighthouse's first post, the Magus, moon and Universe are the 'wrong' way round.

There would seem to be no reason for this except we know there are different versions of the Magus, and another of the moon.
These could be late replacements for discarded originals.

[wizzle]

In my edition the cards noted all have Hebrew letters on the left.

Magus = bet
Moon = qoph
universe = tav

Can't tell you which edition it is as it's over 15 years old and I've lost the box.

[ShekinahMoon]

Anybody know the purpose of the Thoth card whose background is black with a multicolored six pointed symbol?

I'm not sure why this card is in the deck.

[Grigori]

I have a Czech edition of the small size, and it has the two glyphs reversed on only the Magus, and not on the Moon or the Universe. Curious...

Originally Posted by ShekinahMoon

Anybody know the purpose of the Thoth card whose background is black with a multicolored six pointed symbol?

I'm not sure why this card is in the deck.

There are a couple threads on the use of the Unicursal Hexagram card:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=40493
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35256
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=17889
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=452
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=14901

[ShekinahMoon]

Thanks Similia,

I read the threads and it helps me to better understand the purpose of the card. I agree with one of the posters that it is a high magick card or at least a card reflective of magick period. That makes sense considering the nature of Crowley. I'll have to give some meditation to how I will interpret this card.