Halloween Tarot - Court Cards

Hello all.

I hope it’s not too presumptuous of me to start this thread (as Bleuivy was the one who suggested a Halloween Tarot group!), but I’m curious to hear what others make of this…

In the Halloween Tarot, the suits are Bats (Swords), Imps (Wands), Ghosts (Cups) and Pumpkins (Pentacles). Like other decks, each suit has a page, knight, queen and king (pictured with their suit symbol).

However, I’ve noticed a subtle pattern in that all the Kings have a bat motif, the Queens all have a pumpkin, the Knights have imps and the Pages have ghosts. I know that the four suits (and their court cards) have elemental associations, and was wondering what (if anything) could be suggested by this?

fall_guy

I think that you're right with your assumption of an elemental association. (For those who aren't sure, the Halloween is a Swords=Air deck)

Ghosts = cups = water: messages and intuitive flashes, which suit (no pun intended) the Pages perfectly, in my mind. Similarly:
Imps = wands = fire: action, passion, movement
Pumpkins=pents=earth: fertility, fecundity, prosperity
Bats = swords = air: intellect, authority, power

So, right there for the reading, are all the basic elemental dignities & correspondences for the courts:

King of Bats = air of air, the essence of the suit
Page of Bats = water of air, messages of contemplation for the intellect
Queen of Ghosts = earth of water, strong and stable emotions & intellect
...and there you go, much like that.


Anyone else's thoughts?

Illy

Ilithiya said:

So, right there for the reading, are all the basic elemental dignities & correspondences for the courts:

King of Bats = air of air, the essence of the suit
Page of Bats = water of air, messages of contemplation for the intellect
Queen of Ghosts = earth of water, strong and stable emotions & intellect
...and there you go, much like that.


Anyone else's thoughts?

Illy

Click to expand...

Hi Illy.

This is what confused me. I got the impression (but it may be wrong!) that the courts were represented as:

King = Air
Queen = Water
Knight = Fire
Page = Earth

(although I know some see King=Fire and Knight=Air).

In the Halloween tarot, a extra 'dimension' to each court card seems to be suggested:

King of Bats = Air of Air (plus Air again with the bat motif)
Queen of Bats = Water of Air (plus Earth with the pumpkin)
Page of Pumpkins = Earth of Earth (plus Water with the ghost motif)
etc

I guess it's not really confusing me, but I find it intriguing that each court has been given 3 elemental associations.

fall_guy

Aha! Your attributions for the court personages themselves differ from mine...

Yours:

King = Air
Queen = Water
Knight = Fire
Page = Earth

Click to expand...

Mine:
King=Air; seasoned intellect, authority, power
Queen=Earth; fertility, abundance, prosperity, stability, wisdom
Knight=Fire; the messenger, passion, frenzy, movement
Pages=Water; youth, messages, intuition, inspiration
(btw... my kings/knights change according to swords=fire or swords=air)

With my associations, each personage has two attributes; some of yours would make three (your examples of Page of Bats and Queen of Pumpkins)... I am in no way inferring that you're wrong; I'm wondering, though, how you came up with your associations and how they work with the Halloween deck.

Illy

Court Cards Revisited!!

Well hello everyone! Time to get this going again I see!!

I differ from you folks in how I see the Court cards - I have non-ridgid elemental associations with the suits, but not with the court. I tend to view the King as being the master, the law maker, the leader. The Queen as being the mediator, the wise-woman, the psychic one. The Knights as action, leading the charge, perhaps messengers. The Pages as youth, innocence, child-like, looking to the elders for leadership and guidance, playful. Well they should be playful; they haven't grown up enough to take on the responsibilities of the adults. Will they become knights, or remain pages in the court??

Just a few thoughts.

OH - It is interesting that the Kings all have bats motifs! And I see a progression in the Knights' stances also -- from charging in the Kn of Bats, to reigning-in in the Kn of Imps, to coming to a standstill to deliver a scroll in the Kn of Ghosts, to restful contemplation in the Kn of Pumpkins.

Interesting. Verrryyy interesting.

*S*

Skydancer said:

OH - It is interesting that the Kings all have bats motifs! And I see a progression in the Knights' stances also -- from charging in the Kn of Bats, to reigning-in in the Kn of Imps, to coming to a standstill to deliver a scroll in the Kn of Ghosts, to restful contemplation in the Kn of Pumpkins.

Interesting. Verrryyy interesting.

*S*

Click to expand...

Wow! It's funny returning to a thread I started over a year ago...
I'm glad some more interest has been drummed up for the Halloween tarot (a truely under-rated deck).

Skydancer - Wow (again)! I've never considered that there's a progression in the Knight's stances (even using the RWS).

Skydancer said:

OH - It is interesting that the Kings all have bats motifs!

Click to expand...

Yes, and the Queens all have pumpkins, the Knights all have imps and the Pages all have ghosts...very clever!

I have to say that I've found the minors in this deck a tad disappointing (especially the Imp courts). I wish Kipling West has used the same artistic freedom that she used in the majors, and not stick so rigidly to the RWS designs. However the ones were she has come up with new imagery (e.g 10 of Imps, 10 of Pumpkins) are terrific.

This thread must have slipped from my vigilence (I come often in the study group). But I must admit I also saw the background of the court card. At first, I thought I was hallucinating. I am happy it wasn't the case (and that I wasnt the only one who noticed that)

Hi - back to the Knights again!!

I've been reading (when am I not?!) and it said that (often) the Knights' horses are in stances complementing the suit. So -

The horse of the Kn of Bats (air/swords) is in full stride -- your thoughts running away with you

the Kn of Imps (fire/wands) is blowing steam from his nostrels from the ride (ahh - a fire breathing horsie!!)

the Kn himself of Ghosts (water/cups) is looking favorably upon the ghost, and his mount is just prancing a bit in place perhaps. Emotionaly calm, in a quiet place

and the mount of the Kn of Pumpkins (earth/coins) is at rest. Mission complete. He has a look of "Don't bother me, I'm doing my own thing" look on its face. Ready to challenge any oncomer - in the physical (mundane) realm.

Interesting. How do you see them?
Yes, this is a RWS clone mostly - but I still like the way they are presented. I can see where I would have made changes, but isn't that the way it is with all decks??
I think this deck works for people who are not quite ready to have a reading from the "real" tarot, or for youngsters. Or your grandmother!!!

*S*

I just re-read this and want to add that I personally consider it a "real" tarot. But as of this writing I haven't done any spirit work with it.

Just came across this today, the right time of year!

My readings (of books) have all been that Queens=water and Pages=earth, unlike the presentation here. But I can see reasons for both positions for Queens; Pages seem to get the leftover suit by default!

I need to get this deck out and join this discussion.

Interesting discussion.

It makes me wonder whether it's significant when the suit emblems crop up in other cards (e.g the four pumpkins in the Four of Imps, the bat on the Queen of Pumpkins etc).

It could just be coincidence (the artist just randomly putting in Halloween imagery on all the cards). Or perhaps there's some meaning to it?