Elemental Dignities and the Majors

So I keep looking and looking into elemental dignities, and I can't seem to get a straight answer as to how to attribute the Majors. Basically, what I'm hearing is that I should apply the elements as they are applied in astrology.....

guess what?

I don't know anything about astrology!

(help!)

That's where learning a bit of astrology comes in

There is also kaballah in thoth too, but that isn't brought up as much; is it unimportant? No, but people don't really want to learn it because its complex. Can you read without it? Yes, but if you take the time to study it, it will make readings more insightful.

So maybe you don't want to learn about the astrology because it would take too much time....well after a while, you will have the basics of tarot down, and to fill your "tarot time gap", you will want to learn a different area as to improve on the other. So is this case.

I'm guessing you have a basic understanding of elemental dignities, so I'll just type out attributions.

Fool--uranus, air
Mag--mercury, air
HP--moon, water
Empre--venus, air
Emper--aries, fire
Hier--taurus, earth
Lover--gemini, air
Char--cancer, water
Adjust--libra, air
Hermit--virgo, earth
Wheel--jupiter, fire
Lust--leo, fire
Hang--neptune, water
Death--scorpio, water
Temp--sagittarius, fire
Dev--capricorn, earth
Tow--mars, fire
Star--aquarius, air
Moon--pisces, water
Sun--sun, fire
Aeon--pluto, water/fire
World--saturn, earth

To remember this, the Thoth deck has the illustrations of the planets and signs on the cards, and I believe they are on the majors too as a quick reference. For instance, the hierophant is seated on a bull, taurus.

I always thought of Venus as Earth, I guess cause of my history with the RWS and Mythic with Empress = Ceres etc. Is Venus ever thought of as Earth in astrology because she rules Taurus as well as Libra, or am I just making it up to suit my ignorance about astrology things?

For the Aeon in the Thoth, I would go with fire rather than water. Crowey doesn't actually include the modern planets (even though they fit very well as given by Rainwolf, and I like to think of them). Instead the Fool (air), Hanged Man (water) and Judgement (fire) are attributed to the pure element (as mother letters in the Hebrew letter, they are different than the others).

The scene depicted on the Aeon card in from the Stele of Revealing, which for Crowley signified the destruction of the world by fire; i.e. the New Aeon, which is the basis of his thelema philosophy, and the reason a totally different design was needed than the previous one based on Revelations.

One of the really cool things in the Thoth and other similar decks, is that the qabalah is a mediator between the cards and the astrology. If you learn a little bit about one of them, you'll realise you accidentally learned a bit about the other also

It's funny- my confusion initially came with Venus- The Empress. I have a book that says water, a website (that the author of the book operates) that says Earth.... and now air..... Do I hear Fire, anyone?

Actually, I thought that it prettymuch would have to be a passive element from what I know about the card, so I was surprised to see you say air....

similia said:

I always thought of Venus as Earth, I guess cause of my history with the RWS and Mythic with Empress = Ceres etc. Is Venus ever thought of as Earth in astrology because she rules Taurus as well as Libra, or am I just making it up to suit my ignorance about astrology things?

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It might be, I was kinda using intuition because of past experience with venus. It might be both since earth and air are polar and venus sometimes behaves like that....? Probably more earth.

For the Aeon in the Thoth, I would go with fire rather than water. Crowey doesn't actually include the modern planets (even though they fit very well as given by Rainwolf, and I like to think of them). Instead the Fool (air), Hanged Man (water) and Judgement (fire) are attributed to the pure element (as mother letters in the Hebrew letter, they are different than the others).

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Yes I have those in my notes I always wondered why I had two things next to the hanged man. The important thing is that of their element.

The scene depicted on the Aeon card in from the Stele of Revealing, which for Crowley signified the destruction of the world by fire; i.e. the New Aeon, which is the basis of his thelema philosophy, and the reason a totally different design was needed than the previous one based on Revelations.

One of the really cool things in the Thoth and other similar decks, is that the qabalah is a mediator between the cards and the astrology. If you learn a little bit about one of them, you'll realise you accidentally learned a bit about the other also

Click to expand...

Isn't that great

rainwolf said:

It might be, I was kinda using intuition because of past experience with venus. It might be both since earth and air are polar and venus sometimes behaves like that....? Probably more earth.

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Thanks RW! It occured to me after posting that Earth and Air are opposites, so the poor Empress/Venus could be a bit conflicted. I guess then a bit of Libra would really help her out. Oh! and I just remembered your old user title, which would explain why you prefer Air to Earth for Venus.

thinbuddha said:

It's funny- my confusion initially came with Venus- The Empress. I have a book that says water, a website (that the author of the book operates) that says Earth.... and now air..... Do I hear Fire, anyone?

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Maybe they choose Water based on the relationship between mother and water. Although I think the High Priestess fits that part of the achetype better than the Empress. The Empress is the alchemical trump for salt however, so she is also tied into the water/ocean/mother themes.

LOL yes I certainly do crush on libras! LOL Free Flight PM'd me about that a few days ago

Venus is attributed to libra AND taurus, so there is a little earth, and a little air in there. Libra takes the social part of venus, and taurus takes the pleasure and lazy part of venus. What I should really do is link the hierophant to venus also, as there is some of that in that card also.

Venus is high maintainance also....that might relate to the Empress POSSIBLY because she is sitting on satin/velvet/silk and eating. She's also knocked up in some decks I might add....and she's not even exercising!

So:
Empress--venus-->air/earth-->neutral around fire and water, negative around air/earth (2 drama queens/high maintainance freaks cant get along together!)

Hierophant--Taurus-->venus-->earth

rainwolf said:

So:
Empress--venus-->air/earth-->neutral around fire and water, negative around air/earth (2 drama queens/high maintainance freaks cant get along together!)

Hierophant--Taurus-->venus-->earth

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Oh I like that a lot!

I sat down on my bed the other day and layed out the cards in their astrological rulerships. It was so interesting and helpful for a non astrolger to think in terms of Empress rules Heirophant, High Priestess is Exhalted in Heirophant etc. Maybe it will be helpful to you thinbuddha to try the same. The combinations were very revealing, and a little removed (at least in appearance) from the scary web of astrology

Fool rules the Star
Magician rules The Lovers and The Hermit
High Priestess rules The Chariot
The Empress rules The Heirophant and Adjustment
Wheel of Fortune rules Art
The Hanged Man rules the Moon
The Tower rules The Emperor
The Sun rules Lust
The Aeon rules Death
The Universe rules The Devil

similia said:

Maybe it will be helpful to you thinbuddha to try the same. The combinations were very revealing, and a little removed (at least in appearance) from the scary web of astrology

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Hmmmm--- What exactly does it mean when you say the Empress "rules" the Heirophant? How would one apply that to a reading? The scary web of astrology is, I know, something I'll have to tangle with at soem point or another....

thinbuddha said:

Hmmmm--- What exactly does it mean when you say the Empress "rules" the Heirophant? How would one apply that to a reading? The scary web of astrology is, I know, something I'll have to tangle with at soem point or another....

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Sorry, I used an astrolgy word

Think of it like they are very similiar, and are about the same sort of things.

For example: The Empress (venus)is similiar to Adjustment (libra) because they both like balance and harmony and relationships. The Empress (venus) is also similiar to The Heirophant (taurus) because they both like nice things to pamper themselves with, are kinda lazy etc..

The best thing IMO, is look at the pairs and see what they have in common or how the re-inforce or complement each other. You will also notice that the cards are the same element as each other (with the exception of Empress/venus and Magician/mercury who have two signs each).

e.g. From Rainwolfs list:
Lust (Leo) = Fire
The Sun (sun) = Fire
The Sun/sun rules Leo/Lust and they are similar and you could apply the same ideas for working out dignities with both cards.

Then you may wonder why the children in the Sun card are so happy, and you realise they are thinking about what is happening on the Lust card (and then you should send them to detention for being dirty little children )