Differences between Priestess and Empress cards

Daimayo

Hi all... somebody can explain me the differences between these two cards??... I really have some troubles reading this two.

Thanks for advance :)
 

elviefae

Hi Daimayo, For me the High Priestess is all about the inner life..she knows the Mysteries..knowledge & wisdom..divination. The High Priestess is virginal. She is neutral. She's associated with the moon.

The Empress is motherly--usually depicted on cards as being pregnant, she knows how to make a good home.. she's creative... she gives unconditional love.
 

mtnmermaid

my take on them

I see the Empress as the mother archetype, creative, lavish, nurturing, beautiful, unconditionally loving, she's the cyclic, seasonal world of Nature that complements the Emperor's manmade world of Law and Order.

The Magician is the Priestess's counterpart and she's just as tricky as him. Don't assume you have her pegged or you'll completely underestimate or misjudge her. She's knowing, intuitive, veiled, she's got that little Mona Lisa smirk and you can only guess what it might mean, you'll never know for sure. I love seeing her in a reading. :) Vianne in the movie Chocolat reminds me a lot of her.

Edited to add: In the Mythic deck, the Empress is Demeter and the Priestess is Persephone. Reading their myths helped me understand those cards' energies a little better.
 

Teheuti

mtnmermaid said:
The Magician is the Priestess's counterpart and she's just as tricky as him.

I thought your post was quite helpful but was thrown a little by this statement. Certainly the Magician and the Priestess can represent the primary essence of masculine and feminine - especially before they come together in committed relationship as Empress and Emperor. However, the Priestess is also counterpart to the Hierophant - as officiants of the Mysteries. The Magician is, likewise, the counterpart of Strength (especially in RWS). On occasion he may be lover to the Empress (they're very discrete) - although their relationship is likely to be like troubador to his lady.

As to the Priestess being "tricky" - I wouldn't call it that. Rather the fault lies in us. Because she speaks in silence, through intuition and symbol, it's easy for us to misunderstand her. She can also be changeable like the moon - but her fluctuations have their own "reason" that we may not comprehend. Her Mona Lisa smile is reserved for those who demand that she speaks to us in our way - not hers. A respectful opening to her wisdom brings out an entirely other side of who she is.

As to her virginal characteristics - I prefer thinking of the term in its original meaning of "whole, belonging to herself and not to any man." She goes with whomever she pleases and can initiate the male to the gifts of Goddess. She channels, mirrors and reflects the feminine within another. Her realm is the underworld of the subconscious and dreams. (Persephone was Queen of the Dead.) Think of her as cool and independent.

The Empress, OTOH, attracts and magnetizes others to her feminine core. She feeds and nurtures through her fertility. She is the essence of what creates bonds and relationships in order to care for both child and community. Her realm is the green and growing earth. (Demeter's sorrow produced famine and starvation.) She has far more to do with sensual and aesthetic pleasures. Think of her as warm and related.

Mary
 

firemaiden

Daimayo, my friend from Chile! This is a very good question. There are lots of very good reasons to confuse these cards. What is the difference between these two women? Some decks make it clear that the Empress is the pregnant, mother goddess thang, while the HP is the librarian... but it didn't exactly start out that way.

If we take a little walk over to the history department, (and open Paul Huson's Mystical Origins of the Tarot) we remember the Empress began life as wife of the Emperor; she has an imperial crown, not a crown of stars, and her shield bears the eagle, not the sign of Venus. Huson suggests "Today we should see her as the supreme archetype of female secular authorty and political power at work on or behind the throne" (p. 87).

Some see the earlier Empress as more of an Athena than Demeter type. (Bye the way, the wonderful new Golden Tarot of Klimt uses Klimt's Pallas Athena painting for the Empress card)

In a discussion we once had on these forums called French and the English Traditions, AT member ihcoyc noted that the French tradition links the Empress with Athena.

Of course, it is the High Priestess who has the book! but if the Empress represents Athena, then it is she who stands for wisdom and learning.

As for the High Priestess some see her, not the Empress, as portrayal of the Goddess Isis - mother of creation/love goddess (etc.). Robert O'Neill in Tarot Symbolism finds it "quite possible that the Tarot image of the Papess is meant to represent Isis" and cites as evidence a mural painting of Isis that looks almost exactly like the tarot card:
The strongest evidence that the Papess is meant to represnt Isis comes from a mural in the Appartamento Borgia in the Vatican. In the painting, Isis is seated on a throne with two pillars and a veil stretched between. She is also holding a book in her lap.
.

jmd points out in II-La Papesse that the Virgin Mary has also been historically portrayed as a women holding a book.

I'm telling you all this, so you will know why you are confused -- it shows you that the two cards have almost had their meanings switched.

On the other hand, if you ask me what I think: I think the Empress is the wife of the Emperor, and they form a couple that rules the earth. The Emperor rules the manly part of earth and the wife rules the womanly part of earth, I like the idea of her being an earthy sexy symbol, yet with strength and authority. Incarnation of the Goddess in the flesh, with an emphasis on flesh.

The High Priestess (Popesse) I see as the counterpart to the Hierophant (Pope). I see her as the higher feminine self - a spirit guide - the incarnation of the Goddess in the flesh with an emphasis on Goddess... LOL
 

mtnmermaid

Yes the fault lies in us,

thus my statement about her being misunderstood/underestimated. So you don't like "tricky?" What would you call it instead? Mysterious? Unknowable? Because you seem to disagree more with the word itself than with my description of her qualities.

I've never liked the title High Priestess because it does make her seem like the Hierophant's (in some decks the High Priest) female counterpart. The Heiro is about teaching/passing on/enforcing Tradition (insert Fiddler on the Roof song here) or Knowledge in groups and communities. It's genderless, it needs no counterpart card to make it whole. It's not necessarily about religion although priests in religions can be hieros. To me the Priestess would be more aptly named Oracle or something like that. She's the conceal to the Magician's reveal, the unconscious to his conscious.

I don't see a need for a counterpart card to Strength either, it's already there within the card itself, with the yin/yang or feminine/masculine balance of between the maiden and the lion. They are each other's counterparts, the card is about the interplay of their energies whether it's in a relationship between two people or a relationship between one's civilized self (maiden) and one's wild side (lion).

For what it's worth. I love hearing other people's interpretations.
 

Teheuti

mtnmermaid said:
So you don't like "tricky?" What would you call it instead? Mysterious? Unknowable? Because you seem to disagree more with the word itself than with my description of her qualities.
Personally, I don't see the Priestess as "just as tricky as him[Magician]." He's a coyote/trickster who doesn't always have the well-being of a person in mind. He can be a manipulator and a con-man (although that's far from all that he is). My experience of the Priestess is quite different.

I've never liked the title High Priestess because it does make her seem like the Hierophant's (in some decks the High Priest) female counterpart.
Sometimes she works in this way but, IMHO, that's not all she is. I simply prefer to keep the options open. For instance, the Priestess can also pair with the Hermit (who Waite, in one place, says is Persephone - although I see the Hermit as her Hecate-manifestation). The Moon rules Cancer, so in terms of Golden Dawn correspondences (not that these are necessary "right") - the Cancer Chariot becomes the son/lover of the Moon Priestess. The Moon is exalted (operates at it's best) in Taurus - the Hierophant. He is the "speaker/revealer of mysteries" - specifically the Eleusinian mysteries of Demeter and Persephone.

To me the Priestess would be more aptly named Oracle or something like that. She's the conceal to the Magician's reveal, the unconscious to his conscious.
She's also the hidden, inner sanctuary of the Hierophant's outer church.

I don't see a need for a counterpart card to Strength either.
That's what's great about Tarot - it can be seen in so many different ways.

Mary
 

Mabuse

There MUST be a difference between the Empress and the High Priestess!
Separation of Church and State, you know!
 

Umbrae

Plagiarized from a a previous post (of mine):

There are those who say the High Priestess guards the temple, and that she allows access to those worthy – some state it refers to intuition.

The Waite Coleman-Smith deck shows the High Priestess seated, flanked with two columns with water behind her. The columns are marked B and J. Further reading tells us that this refers to Boaz and Jakin (alt: Jachen or Jachin).

Those Pillars…where did they come from? What are they about? One should always go to the reference source...we are told (Kings 1 7:21) that the Pillar Jakin was to the south, and Boaz was to the north at the entrance to Solomon's Temple…therefore, in order for the configuration shown, the view is from the inside of the Temple of Solomon looking East from the West, towards the outside.

We learn in Kings 1 7:23, how outside the Temple of Solomon, Huram (also Hiram) built a sea “cast in metal, and circular in shape measuring ten cubits high, it took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it…”

Based upon the construction notes provided in the book of Kings 1, we know there was no water inside the temple. Therefore the view must be from the inside of the temple looking out…

The High Priestess in this card does guard the entrance, she guards the egress.

Therefore, often when she arrives in a reading – she signifies that a guardianship in occurring. She’ll let us leave when we are ready to face/deal with the outside world…or perhaps she keeps us from removing the secrets…

However I’m not sure where the virginal aspect comes in…. And as to assigning any ‘female aspect’ with lunar aspects, and then proceeding to describe either as having only three faces…last I looked, the moon has four faces….

:smoker:
 

Alta

From Helvetica (who is having technical problems posting to this thread)

One thing that helped me in distinguishing the two, when they are both strong female archetypes, was to think of them as the two facets of the goddess Isis.

Now, we are all familiar with the idea of the High Priestess as Isis - it's an association that's been made for at least 200 years. Isis as sorceress, seer, diviner, the deep & knowing Isis. She is the most powerful of all Egyptian pantheon gods for that reason. The High Priestess's power lies in her knowledge & her ability to gestate what will come out of the Empress, the other face of Isis; but she also knows how to trick those who appear more powerful than her, just as Isis tricked Ra into revealing his real name, so she could take his power & use it for the good of humanity. Isis was said to have been a real priestess, who was deified & given some of the powers of the older gods & goddesses.


In her other facet, Isis is the Lover & the Mother. She revived her beloved Osiris, who had been murdered by their brother Set, and conceived Horus with him. Horus is the child of the Sun, the Son of the the resurrected god. Few people realise that the common images of "Mother and Child" in the Christian churches are direct imitations of the older Isis and Horus iconography. The Empress is Isis who has brought forth a creation - she has used her power to create. This can be a human child, a child of the mind, of the heart, of the spirit...hers is another kind of power & of knowing, but it helps to remember that behind the mother-creator-Isis comes the sorceress-Isis.