Newsflash - Crowley is not God

[wizzle]

Crowley's life wasn't bad, it was a fiasco. He had no sense of responsibility and would cadge meals in restaurants when he was poor. Most of us call this stealing. If he wrings his hands in his diaries then he's OK, right? "oh my oh my oh my.. i'm just so upset I have to evade my landlord because I refuse to pay my rent, etc."

Please note that even when he was "poor" he was getting a 300 pound income which was enough for most people to live on. It is certainly NOT enough to live on as Crowley did before he frittered away his interitance. He was a VERY rich man at one time. And, bottom line, his magick didn't help his overall situation.

I'm one of those silly people who think you should walk the walk as well as talk the talk. There are plenty of great examples of folks who were both spitritual and lead exemplery lives. Generally they are called saints. And no, it's not somehow my problem that I expect a lot from anyone who aspires to be a world teacher the way Crowley did. He may have had his points, but greatness was certainly not one of them. He put together a nice set of cards. He had a few good things to say regarding the magick others dug up. He broke his vows. He was colorful and self-extoling.

[ravenest]

.... he wrote some of the best books on magick ever written, he collated an extensive eclectic system, he introduced the sciences and scientific method to magick .... he wrote fantastic initiation rituals .....

[AbstractConcept]

What does any of that have to do with his cards?


A quote from lashtal.com, who are in turn quoting Gaurdian Newspaper:

"Certain actions," said Crowley, "produce certain results." Sentiments worth bearing in mind for those curious about the life, work and legacy of this extraordinary, flawed, complex and often shocking figure."

[Lillie]

I suppose it gives us some idea of the man who designed the cards...

Also it gives us a look at some of the ideas that went into the deck.

From what I see, it seems that the cards were the one of the last things he ever did, and though he did not draw them himself he put many of his ideas and beliefs into them.

These ideas and beliefs were formed by his life, by his experiences, by what he did, his failures, his sucesses, his hopes, his fears, his doubts.

So, everything he did and everything he was (and was not) all played a part in the creation of the deck.

So, I suppose that is what it has to do with his cards.

[AbstractConcept]

Well, yeah, I guess that is right enough. it just seemed as a bit of a jab at his character (and lets face it, there've been enough of those over the past hundred and eight odd years). besides, crowley was just as much god as you or i or anything else in the conceivable world, right? so it's a bit of a redundancy.

[Aeon418]

Originally Posted by wizzle

There are plenty of great examples of folks who were both spitritual and lead exemplery lives. Generally they are called saints.

So, let me get this straight. Being spiritual and leading an exemplery life are seperate. Thank you.

Saints !!! Sheesh !
There's no such thing outside of myth. Every human being has failings and faults. People who think they are perfect and saintly are full of it. No one is perfect. Everyone falls short of perfection in one way or another.
What makes Crowley different from other gurus is that he never hid his faults behind a smoke screen of false, holier-than-thou, sanctimoniousness.

People who continue to attack Crowley for how he lived his life remind me of people who constantly complain about TV programmes that they personally find offensive. It always begs the question, if it was so offensive to you why did you watch it in the first place?
I say change the channel and get on with your life and leave other people to do the same.

[ravenest]

[QUOTE=AbstractConcept]What does any of that have to do with his cards?

Ummm, not sure if that's my question .... it is after my post , so;

It has everything to do with his cards (as Lily pointed out).
AC researched a vast info base and created an eclectic system and put much of it into his tarot. He did the same with science and scientific method (have a look at the little line diagram at the bottom of the Universe card for just one simple eg.) The initiation rituals; how many times has one read a reference to these rituals in the more complex explaination of some cards - look at the whole sequence of cards featuring eagle / lion positions and colors.

[ravenest]

It's rather unusual that these things keep getting around, seeings as we are still being flooded by fake guru's, who can produce a gold chain "out of thin air!" (get a life and go to a nightclub magic act, they do much better) while the peasants get ash. The Guru's who have been busted for molestation and abuse. The recent history of Christian clergy in this repect. The born-again leaders who "fall from grace" (and accidently happened to land upon on of the congregation ... repeatedly), the money ripped off. Every month we hear some new story or some court case where it is proved. But lets not bring that up. We are still too busy po-pooing some dude that died way back then who had the decency (yes I am using the words Crowley and decency in the same post!) to openly admit he had faults.

[Lillie]

Personally I like the bloke.

He's funny.

He was very clever, very interesting, but also very flawed.
We are all flawed. Sadly we are not all as interesting as he was.

He certainly was not god. (no more of a god than anyone else is) Even though I did a funny thread with the title 'Crowley is God', I hope everyone knew I was joking.
I think Wizzle did, and the title of her thread here is probably, partly, a reference to that one.

He's an interesting bloke, partly because of his flaws.
And everything he was, and everything he did has something to do with the cards he designed.

Every man and woman is a star.
But Crowley was a super nova. fabulously destructive to anything within range.
cool.

[AbstractConcept]

Ravenest, i meant what the character swipes had to do with the cards.