[Rusty Neon]

Originally Posted by coredil

I have read on Flornoys site that there was a very first printing of Marteaus book in 1929 with cards glued in the book from a 1890 Camoin deck (Conver)
http://letarot.com/dossiers-chauds/h...ver/index.html

I don't see how that could be; in his book, Marteau is quite specific about the colours. Would he have changed the text later on to reflect the Grimaud Marteau deck colours? The colours of the cards of the 1890 (1880) Camoin (Conver) deck are often similar but not the same as the Grimaud Marteau deck. For example, some reds in the 1880 deck are rendered by Marteau as blue or yellow; some blues in the 1880 deck are rendered by Marteau as yellow or red, etc., etc.

[coredil]

Well, LE BATELEUR on the scan on the right side of the page looks exactly like LE BATELEUR from the 1968 Camoin edition of the Conver (from the woodblock), the colors are also the same.
Is this scan of the page of Marteaus book a fake?
I have no clue.

Best regards

[kenji]

Hi coredil

I have a Grimaud TdM deck made in 1930's, which has a blue 1890 tax stamp on the Ace of Coins.

Copyright: · B · P · GRIMAUD · PARIS ·
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: beige
Cards: 62 mm x 119 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
Back design: The same as that of Dusserre reproduction, but finer & darker.


By the way, I have a copy of Marteau's book, too. It was printed in 1970, but the attached plates are CONVER 1880 cards.

So Coredil, let me confirm one thing:
please check the date on the last page (not the reverse of the front page) of your "00a" copy. Is it really a 1949 printing?

[coredil]

Hello Kenji

Originally Posted by kenji

Hi coredil

I have a Grimaud TdM deck made in 1930's, which has a blue 1890 tax stamp on the Ace of Coins.

Copyright: · B · P · GRIMAUD · PARIS ·
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: beige
Cards: 62 mm x 119 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
Back design: The same as that of Dusserre reproduction, but finer & darker.

Considering your informations and the scans and the informations I got from Surnateum, it seems as if the 1930s deck and deck 01 are very identical except the Lys, the dice and the stamp.
To me is one important thing about these decks this unique thick cardstock with the beige background without any plastic feeling.
I wonder how long Grimaud produced on this cardstock.

Do you have a box similar to the Surnateum scan?

I dont have the Dusserre reproduction, but as you mention it I suppose this is not the same cardback as deck 01?

Originally Posted by kenji

By the way, I have a copy of Marteau's book, too. It was printed in 1970, but the attached plates are CONVER 1880 cards.

Wow! Incroyable!
Somewhere it increases the confusion
Do you mean with "attached" that the pictures are printed on separate paper and then glued on the pages of the book as I describe for 00a?

Originally Posted by kenji

So Coredil, let me confirm one thing:
please check the date on the last page (not the reverse of the front page) of your "00a" copy. Is it really a 1949 printing?

Yes I confirm.
I attach a scan of the information that are on the very last page of the book.

Best regards

[kenji]

Hi coredil
I'm glad you like my post.

Originally Posted by coredil

Do you have a box similar to the Surnateum scan?

Unfortunately not.

I dont have the Dusserre reproduction, but as you mention it I suppose this is not the same cardback as deck 01?

No. Mine is "swirls and dots" pattern.
The "basket-weave" pattern of your "01" deck is just the same as 1880 Conver deck. (I saw it in "Schweizer Spielkarten 2".)
And the 1880 deck which Mr Ronald Decker owns seems to have the same back design. (The expression "basket-weave" was the one Mr Decker himself used.)

Do you mean with "attached" that the pictures are printed on separate paper and then glued on the pages of the book as I describe for 00a?

Yes. Pretty thin paper.

And thank you for the image of the inscription.
So, your book was really printed in 1949
Now please tell me something about "LE BATEUR" in your 1949 book.
It is 2 yellow dice (not 2 red circles) that you can see on the table. Right?
If so, that gives me a good tip about Marteau deck history...

[coredil]

Hi Kenji,

Originally Posted by kenji

Now please tell me something about "LE BATEUR" in your 1949 book.
It is 2 yellow dice (not 2 red circles) that you can see on the table. Right?

Yes there are 2 yellow dice on the table of LE BATELEUR.
There is a Tulip (no Lys) on the 4 DE DENIERS

BTW these were details I learned from some of your previous posts to recognise a 1930 deck

The pictures are the same on my second copy of Marteaus book (printed 15 July 1977) but directly printed on the pages.

Isn't it strange?
Why on earth are 1880 Conver pictures on your 1970 edition?

Does the page 9 of your book looks like the picture on Flornoys site?
http://www.letarot.com/dossiers-chau...ver/index.html

Originally Posted by kenji

If so, that gives me a good tip about Marteau deck history...

Now I would really like to know what is your conclusion about this chaos
Also I would be interested if it allows you to date deck 01 and deck 02.
With the 1930 deck these are now 3 decks who are pre-1963

Best regards

[agedog1]

Thank you very much for the information. There is a large auction coming up and I have been doing research, your input has been very helpful.

[kenji]

Originally Posted by coredil

Isn't it strange?
Why on earth are 1880 Conver pictures on your 1970 edition?

Yes, very starange
Maybe due to the copyright matter? (see below)

Originally Posted by coredil

Does the page 9 of your book looks like the picture on Flornoys site?
http://www.letarot.com/dossiers-chau...ver/index.html

Yes. Quite similar.

Originally Posted by coredil

Now I would really like to know what is your conclusion about this chaos
Also I would be interested if it allows you to date deck 01 and deck 02.

I'm not sure about it...
At least, I think your "01" deck should be dated after WWII, and before 1963.
You know, around that time Jean-Marie Simon of LA DUCALE bought up Marteau's company and the brand name "B.P.Grimaud". So, the copyright of Marteau TdM must have been an accompaniment.

I'll post my assumption about the timeline when I have time

[Lee]

A question for anyone who owns the Dusserre edition of the 1930 Grimaud... is the background color beige, or white?

Thanks --
Lee

[Ross G Caldwell]

Originally Posted by Lee

A question for anyone who owns the Dusserre edition of the 1930 Grimaud... is the background color beige, or white?

Thanks --
Lee

Mine's white.