Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

[tmgrl2]

Originally Posted by Lee

I just realized that my deck 4 (English-French titles) has the back which coredil shows for decks 3 and 5 (the blue-and-white pattern) rather than the sunburst-and-flowers which coredil shows for deck 4. Otherwise, my deck matches coredil's description for deck 4.

I bought the deck new at Samuel Weiser's bookstore in New York in the early '80s.

-- Lee

My Deck #4 also has the blue and white connected squares...I got it from someone here at AT a couple of years ago and I believe she bought it in Europe...

terri

[coredil]

I received this "new" deck today

DECK 08 / (scans: GrimaudTdM08)
Copyright: © B P. GRIMAUD 1963
All cards have a copyright
English titles
Very thick cardstock (same cardstock as 02)
Background color: off white
Wide white box with THE WORLD and Gothic Ancien Tarot de Marseille title
No REF. number on the box
Cards: 64,5 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm

Comments:
This deck looks exactly like deck 03 except that it has the cardback with frames! (like deck 02)
So this is a new variation
It came with an orange LWB (ok, one should better say a LOB )
On the back of the LOB it says (among other informations like adress and tel.):
copyright J.-M. SIMON 1969
Dépot légal 1er trim. 1973
On the bottom of the box there is a golden label that says:
"Distributed exclusively in the United Kingdom by Waddingtons
Playing cards Co. LTD. Leeds"

It is a very nice deck that "feels" very well.
I must say I really love this very thick cardstock!
To me (but it is very subjective) it has the same kind of deep color as deck 02.
Deck 03 is a little bit paler

[coredil]

Originally Posted by Lee

I just realized that my deck 4 (English-French titles) has the back which coredil shows for decks 3 and 5 (the blue-and-white pattern) rather than the sunburst-and-flowers which coredil shows for deck 4. Otherwise, my deck matches coredil's description for deck 4.

I bought the deck new at Samuel Weiser's bookstore in New York in the early '80s.

-- Lee

So you and tmgrl2 seem to have another "variation" of the deck
I will try to get one too.

Best regards

[coredil]

Here a "new" one I received today.

DECK 09 / (scans: GrimaudTdM09)
Copyright: B · P · GRIMAUD PARIS 1981
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Normal cardstock
Background color: white
Violet box with LE MONDE on one side and LE MAT on the other side
Réf. 394 403
Cards: 64 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 27 mm
LWB: written bei Tchalai pour Grimaud.
Copyright on the LWB: © France Cartes _ France 1981

Comments:
I believe this is the last edition of the deck, as one can find it mostly everywhere, but I am not sure.
The blue color begins to be quite dark but I have a copy of a mini (also 1981) which is darker.
Interesting is that the scheme to place the copyright on the cards is the original one (00a, 01) as on Marteaus book.
The fact that there is no copyright on the pips allows one to self choose if a card is right or reversed
The LWB is quite thick with 96 pages
There are 2 additional cards: one advertising card (for other decks) and an historical card with some "important" dates in the history of Tarot.

[Rusty Neon]

Originally Posted by coredil

Here a "new" one I received today.

DECK 09 / (scans: GrimaudTdM09)
Copyright: B · P · GRIMAUD PARIS 1981
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Normal cardstock
Background color: white
Violet box with LE MONDE on one side and LE MAT on the other side
Réf. 394 403
Cards: 64 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 27 mm
LWB: written bei Tchalai pour Grimaud.
Copyright on the LWB: © France Cartes _ France 1981

Comments:
I believe this is the last edition of the deck, as one can find it mostly everywhere, but I am not sure.
The blue color begins to be quite dark but I have a copy of a mini (also 1981) which is darker.

A third Grimaud deck that I have is one with very dark blue hues in the cards and with © GRIMAUD 1980 as the copyright indication on the top left hand side of each of the majors, pips and courts. It's in a blue box with the Fool card on one panel and the World card on another. I bought this in 2002 in a Quebec store and it appears that this is still the model currently being sold in Quebec. I wonder whether this 1980 copyright deck might be more recent than a 1981 copyright deck.

[tmgrl2]

coredil, I have the backs you scanned for Deck 9 on my 1963 French/English (Deck 4) Grimaud....

the blue checks....

terri

[coredil]

Originally Posted by Rusty Neon

A third Grimaud deck that I have is one with very dark blue hues in the cards and with © GRIMAUD 1980 as the copyright indication on the top left hand side of each of the majors, pips and courts. It's in a blue box with the Fool card on one panel and the World card on another. I bought this in 2002 in a Quebec store and it appears that this is still the model currently being sold in Quebec. I wonder whether this 1980 copyright deck might be more recent than a 1981 copyright deck.

Do you mean like deck 05?
Mine came without box but with a bilingual LWB.
The copyright on the LWB is:
J.M Simon 1977

Deck 06 is the same as 05 except the advertising thing on the back and the 2 of deniers.
But it came with the Tchalai LWB from 1981!

As I understand, most of the time one cannot say too much about boxes and LWB.
There are often older decks in newer boxes or the contrary.
I suppose there is a stock of already printed cards that have to be sold, and there are packed in what ever box that is just available at the moment.

For example deck 02 which is surely pre 1963 comes in a red box with a 1963 copyright on the L AMOUREUX picture.

So at first (common) sight I would say a card with a 1981 copyright on it
is newer than a card with 1980 copyright but who really knows.
Also it could be that there are different copyright situations in Canada and France and so on.

[coredil]

Originally Posted by tmgrl2

coredil, I have the backs you scanned for Deck 9 on my 1963 French/English (Deck 4) Grimaud....

the blue checks....

terri

Indeed this cardback seems to be the most usual one for Grimaud TdM.
I soon will receive another bilingual titles deck and I believe it will have this cardback too.
If so I will then add it to this list.

Funny thing, in this collection there are:
6 copyright
3 cardstock
4 cardbacks
Mixed in several variations

[Abrac]

Originally Posted by coredil

As I understand, most of the time one cannot say too much about boxes and LWB.
There are often older decks in newer boxes or the contrary.

coredil I have to agree on this point. I have an old version of the El Gran Tarot Esoterico from the 70s which I bought off eBay. The box it came in was in bad shape, so I put the cards in a modern box I had from a more recent version. I can just see someone in the distant future examining this set, scratching their head, and going hmmm...

-fof

[coredil]

Again a new one:

DECK 10 / (scans: GrimaudTdM10)
Copyright: B · P · GRIMAUD PARIS 1981
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock! (same cardstock as deck 02)
Usual plastic lamination
Background color: off white!
Brown box with L'ETOILE on one side
Réf. G 120
Cards: 64 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
LWB: written bei Tchalai pour Grimaud.
Copyright on the LWB: © Ets. J.M. SIMON France Cartes _ France 1981
Copyright on the box: © GRIMAUD . PARIS 1981

Comments:
Though this deck has the 1981 copyright as deck 09, there are some differences.
First the very thick cardstock!
This breaks the theory I began to believe in that a thick cardstock would point to an older deck.
The off white background and the different copyright on the LWB.
The colors are very deep and rich and the blue is pretty light.
It is quite difficult from the scans to really notice the difference between white and off-white background, but it is real and gives a slightly warmer feeling to the pictures.
There are the same 2 additional cards as in deck 09: one advertising card (for other decks) and an historical card with some "important" dates in the story of Tarot.
But the postal adress is different.
It is a very nice deck that feels much much better than 09.
All in all except for the copyright and the back it is very similar to deck 08.
I cant believe that this is a 1981 variation, but it really is!