Exploring the Cary Sheet

Rosanne

Here is a site that Kwaw introduced me to. http://www.spamula.net/blog/archives/000437.html
The PLayer from the 24 engravings in the 16th Century shows a guy with a table and dice, etc plus cards which seem to be TdM. Now if you look at the Cary-Yale Bateleur, it might make one wonder if there are cards on the table and in his hand. ~Rosanne

kwaw

Rosanne said:
Now if you look at the Cary-Yale Bateleur, it might make one wonder if there are cards on the table and in his hand. ~Rosanne

Bateleur is a player or gamester, bagat(eur) a maker of playing cards:

Bagateur:m. ~ A maker of playing cards.
A dictionary of the French and English Tongues Randall Cotgrave (1611).

Rosanne

oohh ahh, that is close enough for mistakes -Bateleur/Bagateur. So thats a knife for cutting the cards and an awl for making the fake punch holes

Just joking about cutting the cards lol.
Regarding cards in the hand- it is a curious way to hold a tumbler- if you think about it- it looks like a hand of cards. The square on the table would look nice with gilded coins on it. It is not a bag as he has one on his belt and a very classy one at that! I wonder if there were any tricks one did with a cobblers awl- because that is what that screwdriver like thing is I guess. Maybe he strung cards on a spindle for you- just to string you along

~Rosanne

kwaw

Rosanne said:
oohh ahh, that is close enough for mistakes -Bateleur/Bagateur. ~Rosanne

And surely must be related to the Italian title 'Bagatto'?

Kwaw

Rosanne

I wonder if there is a list anywhere of the titles given to this card-
Il Bagattel
Il Bagatto
Le Bateleur/
Magician
El Mago
Il Bagattelliere (Juggler?)
Le Ratelevx
Montebank (Playing cards)
Bagattino
Il Ciabattino (cobbler?)
~Rosanne

kwaw

Rosanne said:
Il Bagattel
Il Bagatto
Il Bagattelliere (Juggler?)
Bagattino
~Rosanne

Kwaw

venicebard

Rosanne said:
What is on the table here in the Cary- Yale sheet? Is that a bag? a whet stone for the knife? a pack of Cards?

a cup, perhaps?

Is it not possible that the dice indicate that gambling prohibitions moved the dice to the cards? If cards as a game first, . . .

Probably would have shifted enthusiasm from one t'th'other. And I'm pretty sure the rune for p (*pairthra, a name almost certainly related to a Keltic word for 'divination') conveys a dice-cup on its side -- a stiff pouch, used as cups still are (in bars) for dice to this day -- in the act of throwing rune-dice, to divine thereby. (This links it to Hebrew peh, of course, in that mouth peh also emits letter-sounds.)

This would put the dice-cup's use as far back as 2nd century B.C.E. to 2nd century C.E. Since it is but a single short step from divining one's fortune (prophecy) to trying one's fortune (gambling), I should think the game of dice would have sprung up almost immediately upon the introduction of dice.

It seems odd to me that no cards depict cards(that I can find) ~Rosanne

They are cards (I know, you knew that).

Rosanne said:
I wonder if there is a list anywhere of the titles given to this card-
Il Bagattel
Il Bagatto
Le Bateleur/
Magician
El Mago
Il Bagattelliere (Juggler?)
Le Ratelevx
Montebank (Playing cards)
Bagattino
Il Ciabattino (cobbler?)
~Rosanne

(To which one might add Bridgebuilder, as implied by the shape of his table here in the Cary sheet.) I should imagine a pun on 'card-maker' was intentional, and the name that meant a common coin (according to kwaw's dictionary-image) might even be self-deprecating humor to boot.

kwaw

venicebard said:
I should imagine a pun on 'card-maker' was intentional, and the name that meant a common coin might even be self-deprecating humor to boot.

I imagine you may be right

Kwaw

Rosanne

Thanks Kwaw for the list.
The most common name /title seems to be Le Bateleur/Batelevr.
I can imagine Bridgebuilder- but I can not find a card that says that

There is a Tdm style pack called Renault Tarot that shows what looks like a deck of cards on the table (Kaplan Vol2 P.351)
Grandpretre tarot of the 18th Century shows a deck of cards on the table.(P. 337).
I would check Vol 1 Kaplan only mine is damaged.
There is a tumbler on the table of the Cary-Yale, the one in the hand looks different. You need three tumblers for the 'Where is the Pea' gambling game. I like the pun aspect, and I would imagine that would be used quite a bit.
So on the table is some standard objects- 3 Dice, Knife, Awl/hook instrument, Tumbler, and coins. The things seems to say That La Bateleur is a Jack of all trades- "Want to gamble, have your teeth pulled, wart removed, shoes fixed or watch the disappearing pea, or the card trick???"
~Rosanne

kwaw

Rosanne said:
I would check Vol 1 Kaplan only mine is damaged.
~Rosanne

(((Rosanne)))

I feel for your losses from the storms Rosanne. The floods here in England have affected many of my colleagues at work, the nurse who normally sits at the desk next to me has been off this week as the floods have devastated his home and his downstairs is still six feet under water; there is no fresh running water as it has been polluted by sewage and no power and they have a six week old baby too. I know your own losses have been great and it will be a while before things can return to normal.

Hope there is some comfort in the warmth of a far distant but heartfelt hug...

(((Steve)))