9 of cups

[Lain_82]

I've looked around here for a 9 of cups thread and couldn't find anything.... Is this card so dull or is it that it's meaning it's too... evident?
I think this card means "satisfaction", maybe because of the large amount of cups and the way the flower seems to flow from the center cup to the others around it. And yet I was wondering if this card had any other association besides this one, or if is one of those cards that requires no thought whatsoever.

[Abrac]

Hi Lain_82

Many of the non-scenic pips in the Marseilles seem uninteresting to me at times. But I believe there is a method to the madness. I have found numerology to be helpful.

Nine is "totality." 3x3 - with three representing one cycle (beginning, middle, and end).

So your "satisfaction" idea makes sense to me.

[Sulis]

I like to look at the Tarot de Marseilles 'pip' cards as a numerical sequence.

The suit of Cups I see as representing the emotions as well as relationships and the realm of the subconscious.

Looking from the 8 de Coupes to the 9, I think it's interesting to see that the rampant, blooming foliage in the 8 (which I think of as a sorting out of the emotions after the challenges of the 7), seems to be dying down a little. The 9 of Cups looks a lot more calm and restful to me as well as being really balanced with the 3 rows of 3 cups.

To me the 9s relate to L'Hermite VIIII and that means that they do represent a 'quietning down' of the suit's energies.
This is also a card about emotional reflection; a time when we look back but also look forward towards the emotional transition of the 10.
This 9 presents a solid base on which to begin the next cycle and this is represented in the 10 by the large cup placed on it's side on the top of the other 9.
It's interesting to see that the foliage is completely gone in the 10 so the 9 really was an emotional peak.

So this could be a happy card, but it could also be a card of saddness, depending on which type of emotional cycle we're coming to the end of.

[Lain_82]

Originally Posted by Sulis

So this could be a happy card, but it could also be a card of saddness, depending on which type of emotional cycle we're coming to the end of.

I never looked at the 9 of cups as a sad card.... but I can see the reason behind that. I also find interesting the idea of looking at each card not by itself but as a part of a secuence. That makes the interpretation a lot easier.

Originally Posted by Abrac

Nine is "totality." 3x3 - with three representing one cycle (beginning, middle, and end).

that makes sense.... so each suit has its own cycle right? and is ten the beginning of a new one?

[Fulgour]

Originally Posted by Lain_82

And yet I was wondering if this card had
any other association besides this one...

I attempted to answer your question,
but my posts were moved to another
section ~and I myself will do likewise.

Adieu Marseille,
~Fulgour

[Abrac]

Hi Lain_82

The main reason I used the "cycle" example was to demonstrate how I came to the conclusion that 9 represents "totality." There could be cycle symbology incorporated into all the suits on some level. I haven't really thought about it, but it would make an intersting study.

0 is associated with spirit, the unmanifested, or pure potential. 1-9 are associated with aspects of the material plane. 1 represents beginnings, so with 10, 1 is in union with 0, and there is a new beginning, but there is also an ending. For after 10, every other number is simply a combination one way or another of 0-10.

[jmd]

moderating note: the post Fulgour refers to is now in its own thread, with attendant discussion, in the History section titled: Marcolini 16th century text?
__________

If one uses our common numerals (0-9), then indeed ten is '10', and can be viewed as a '1' and a '0'.

This is one form of viewing ten, and as presented in earlier posts a way to consider its implications on other numbers, especially one, nine, and emptiness (zero).

Using either Roman or even Hebrew, ten is not '1' and '0', but rather the completion of a first set or first order series, beginning with one, and forming a completion when ten is reached.

From that perspective (which is only one amongst the others suggested), ten would be completion, with nine as not quite there yet - but perhaps 'as though' aspiring, or with near completion, as hope-ful (hope-filled) and also, comsequentially, at times deluded.

This last part also reminds me of the connection at times made between an aspect of the Moon (and its negative aspect of mysts and illusion) and the number nine.

With Cups, certainly it has more than other of the four elements been associated with the element of Water and the Feeling quality. This, however, is likewise one possible correlation. Others, such as the Spanish Gran Esoterico, connect Cups with the Element of Air (with as much reasonable reason).

In terms of the four suits, and irrespective of elemental attribution, whereas Swords may easily be related to the military-legal participation, Coins to Mercantile participation, it certainly seems more 'natural' to make a symbolic connection between Cups and the Sacrament of the Church.

As such, it also very much links in to learning and other human spiritual striving.

Following a sense for the four suits and the possible connection each makes to Atouts (Majors) and one of the Cardinal virtues, it seems 'natural' to connect Cups to Temperance.

Temperance also implies, by its very nature, that in-temperance also exists! Perhaps the ensuing card, the ten of Cups, with that top cup laying on its side, also points to a tempering of a possible over-indulgence at times seen in the nine.

Personally, I also tend to at times see the 'growth' of the stems, leaves and flowers from the central cup as cause for caution: what is it that this central cup holds on offer? It may be the most appealing, but is there, in this overabundance of cups, something that is also more sinister?

Perhaps, then, as a final comment, the nine of cups may indicate a need to choose wisely from that on offer, for not all is as it seems.

[Lain_82]

over indulgence...... thanks a lot you guys! that opened my perception of the 9 of cups .(and in general, of numerology which I'm just starting to study)

I also found this site about the number 9, I thought it was interesting.

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/westcott/chap13.htm

"The Ennead is the first square of an odd number, it was aid to be like the Ocean flowing around the other numbers within the Decad. No further elementary number is possible; hence it is like the Horizon because all the numbers are bounded by it. We find that it was called Prometheus, and Freedom from Strife," and Vulcan," because the ascent of numbers is as far as 9, just as the ascent of things decomposed by fire is as far as the sphere of Fire (the summit of the air), and Juno, because the Sphere of the air is arranged according to the novenary (nine) system, and sister and wife to Jupiter" from its conjunction with the Monad. And Telesphoros" or Bringing to an end" because the human offspring is carried 9 calendar months by the parent. And teleios or perfect for the same reason, and also called Perfect" because it is generated from the Triad, which is called Perfect." "