Figuring it out

[dadsnook2000]

When we look at Emma's TROPICAL birth chart we find the following factors:
** Sun is at 6-18-58 Cancer (relocated to her present location)
** MC is at 16-17 Gemini
** ASC is at 26-57 Virgo

When we look at Emma's SIDEREAL birth chart we find these factors:
** Sun is at 12-36-25 Gemini
** MC is at 2-35 Gemini
** ASC is at 3-14 Virgo

Yet in both zodiacs, the relative position of the Sun (and all the other planets) to the angles is exactly the same. All that has really changed is the frame of measuring reference. Its all relative. That is why in my previous post I was able to comment on a chart without reference to "signs" because realtive positions to the angles and the aspect patterns remain identical no matter which zodiac I use.

Now, the big difference comes when I calculate a Solar Return. Precession of the zodiac occurs at a rate of approximately one degree every 72 years. If we cast a TROPICAL solar return, our chart will be timed relative to Emma's Sun returning to its Tropical Zodiac birth position of 6-18-58 Cancer. However, a precession corrected solar return would return to a different position, the Sun would have to go a little further, the Earth would turn a little more on its axis. In fact, Emma's 2006 solar return chart has the Sun at 7-26-17 Cancer -- an increase of 1-07-19 degrees which translates into a whole day later. If one was about 35 years of age, the difference would be about a half degree of Sun position and a time about 12 hours later.

So, as we grow older we find that the difference between a Tropical and a Sidereal solar return chart grows greater and greater. It doesn't make too much difference for young people and teen-agers, but it makes a big difference as the years continue to add to our age.

THE 2006 SOLAR RETURN CHART
In terms of its Tropical reference, this precession-corrected chart shows the Sun at 07-26-17 Cancer, the MC at 17-17 Sag, the ASC at 24-34 Pisces.

When I look at a S/R chart I first look at the angles and the planets located near them. In this case the angles show the N.Node 5 degrees from the ASC at 29-30 Pisces, Pluto is about 2 degrees from the MC at 25-06 Sag, Sun is 10 degrees ahead of the IC angle at 7-26-17 Cancer. THIS SHOULD RING A BELL!

These same characters are in the natal 10th house together. Here they show up as transiting planets in the Solar Return -- all at the angles, again. When I see this kind of a pattern I see the word "similarity" in my mind. What is happening here is that a strong natal pattern is re-expressing itself at different angles of the chart. Angles, like houses, can be seen as differing areas of expression -- its just that angular houses are very strong.

So, the following could be said about this Solar Return:
** Pluto at the MC; a total change is likely to occur in terms of Emma's status, her public posture and her ability to control or direct her life. It ain't the same anymore.
** N.Node at the ASC; a new kind of social force or interaction has to be dealt with now. New skills, new attitudes, new situations are on her doorstep.
** SUN in the 4th; Family life, fundamental values long held now have to be honored. She will need to rely upon her will, creativity, force of identity to deal with challenges.

Now, most astrologers would continue probing and interpreting and parsing out details upon details. But if the two of us were in an actual dialog about her chart, what I've stated here would be more than enough to start a full discussion and to better define the involved issues. As we talked I would see all of the minor contributing factors and would better be able to fit those into suggestions and/or insights found in the chart and within her life. The session would be so much more productive.

For now, I will let this Solar Return commentary stay with what I've said.

In my next posting, I will explain how we progress the angles from one Solar Return to the next and see what what likely happen when. Dave
PS; anyone can make comments or ask questions during this process.

[Red Emma]

Dadsnook's reading is so accurate it's scary. I would only enlarge things a bit and perhaps more sharply define the Pluto sesqiquadrate Saturn thing. (I don't have an astological vocabulary. Sorry, guys.)

The situation which most sharply defined my life was a father who was physically and emotionally abusive to my sister, my brother and myself. It left the three of us with low self esteem and distorted personalities. ( I differentiate personality and character.)

Speaking to D's comment re self involvement, it seems that when children are incessantly hammered with the belief that their ideas are trash, the earth would be better off without them, they then constantly monitor their speech and their behaviour hoping, praying that it will be acceptable. Which, of course, would be self involvement. I hadn't thought of it in that manner.

According to Mirriam Webster modesty is behaviour in which a person places a moderate value on their abilities or worth. Which does, of course, pertain here. Although, since I'm highly gregarious and somewhat ebullient, I'd never thought of myself as modest. The ebullience emerges only, of course, with people whom I trust and feel very safe with.

Now, Moon in the 5th house:
The second defining concept in my life was/is a love of writing. I decided in the third grade that I would be a writer and from then on I studied and chose subjects with that in mind.

In the late fifties I finally was able to enter the field, first as a department store copy writer, then as a newspaper reporter. (In the early sixties as female I was only permitted to write for the Society page.)

I went on to spend 15 years in public relations and advertising. In that profession I worked with President Johnson (his staff, only, of course, but I did get to meet him.) Also worked with several movie stars, all of whom have gone to their reward, as my Grandmother used to say. Although Jonathon Winters may still be among us. Also had a scary psychic adventure when I put on a press conference for the Japanese Ambassador to the U.S.

Eventually I established my own business, made twice as much money as I ever did working for anyone else.

Jupiter, Neptune squared Saturn:
My wishes and dreams frequently came a cropper with the opportunites available to women in the fifties and sixties. Whenever I applied for a job in public relations, advertising, the first question an interviewer asked was, "How fast can you type? Later when I had firmly established myself in my profession, I was trying to help a young woman find work. She had been the director of communications for Hubert Humphrey -- a vice presidential candidate at the time. The first question I was asked was, "How fast can she type?"

But back to the fifties. I had a husband, two little boys and desperately wanted, needed, to work. Mothers were prevented from doing so. I found a job but there wasn't an infra-structure to support working mothers. It was too hard on my boys and I gave it up.

Further thoughts on Jupiter/Neptune/Saturn: From Dadsnook; "this pattern brings a drain on a person's life."

During the time I was unable to work for societal reasons, I developed an on-going fatigue. It seemed to disappear whenever I was engaged in work I loved. At the time doctors told me, "Mrs. B, there's nothing wrong with you. It's all in your head. Go home and take care of your children." Now psychologists know that it's a depression-based chronic fatigue, found in people who feel they have no control over their lives.

And an anachonism of the times: My husband, then a photographer, wanted to become a dentist. It was okay for mothers to go to work if the husband needed their incomes for his dreams. That's when I started as a copy writer. (We now call him Dr. B.)

And do I separate myself from the past? I'm not too sure about that. My make-up -- probably in my natal chart -- is that I'm not especially conventional. Which frequently triggered my Dad.

I've spent a lot of my life trying 1) to overcome the low self esteem, and 2)to find the real Emma underneath all those layers of conventionality he loaded me with. Thanks to a new form of post-traumatic stress therapy, I think I've pretty well -- mostly, got her (Emma) figured out.

[dadsnook2000]

When we calculate a solar return for Emma for 2007, we have to add the precession factor (about 1/72nd of a degree) to the Sun's 2006 position. In actuality, to keep the math consistent we add 81/72's of a degree (Emma will be 81 years of age next year) to the natal Sun position.

Using a computer program makes this both easier and far more accurate. Emma's Sun will be 7-27-13 Cancer in a precession-corrected tropical solar return chart. The time will be 6-40-59 AM on Friday June 29, 2007 (instead of June 28th). In this solar return we have an MC of 29-49 Pisces, an ASC angle of21-56 Cancer. Sun and Mercury will be well into the 12th house at 6 and 7 degrees of Cancer. Nothing else looks like it is close to an angle.

Does this mean that 2007 will be a quiet year? Not necessarily. Just as the 2006 solar return will not be totally Pluto-Node-Sun focused. YOU NEED TO ASK WHY AT THIS POINT! Why?

Lets start with a somewhat long explanation. When we do Secondary Progression charts we are using a "year-for-a-day" methodology. When we do a series of daily progressions between two solar returns we are using a "day-for-a-day" methodology. If we check the ephemeris for mid-night on New Years eve/day for two successive years we find that the listed Sidereal Time has advanced apparently some 6 hours. This relates to the fact that the earth rotates on its axis 365 1/4 times during its yearly orbit. Calculating a daily chart using any of several methods (or just looking at the ST listings in the ephemeris) shows that the ST or the MC rotates 5/4's of a circle during the year.

To "progress" a chart on a daily basis we take the ST for the following S/R (in this case, 23h 59m 19s) and subtract the ST for the earlier S/R (17-48-51) to determine the difference, which is 6h 10m 28s. To this we add 24 hours and get a total ST movement or MC movement of 30h 10m 28s. It is easier to do the math if we work in decimals so those who are comfortable with using a calculator can convert this total movement time to 30.17444. For now, keep all of this in mind, as we are going to another subject.

When we see angular planets we "know" that they are likely to appear at the opposite angle in about 4 months and 3 weeks when we progress the MC angle by about 5/4's of a degree per day. We also can surmise that these factors will bring the progressed angles back to their S/R angles in about nine months and two weeks. Often we find that the first 1/2 way point represents a challenge of some kind that we are forced to face. We also find that the nine month two weeks point (more or less) represents the resolvement of the issues shown in the solar return.

Remember that I said that a quiet chart does not necessarily mean that one will have a quiet year? I also said that a busy or significant chart doesn't mean that the whole year will be that way. As we move the angles of the solar return chart forward, we will encounter a variety of transiting planets as well as natal planets. What is key to this process is that we are using a basic Solar-Earth relationship cycle, much like a bio-rhythm. Siderealists know this but don't recognize its importance and uses as a general rule.

This is an important key, because each of the angles has an "interpretive" value that can be combined with the planets it contacts. The ASC represents what you do (natal planet there) or what will happen to you (transiting planet there). The MC represents what you represent or lead others toward (natal planet there) or what circumstances (opportunities or challenges) will impact you (transiting planet there).

Now, another angle exists that astrologers do not generally recognize. I call this angle the CD or Co-Descendant. In astrology, equal arcs between planets are important. Any pair of planets with a given arc (lets say 37 degrees and 15 minutes) will resonate or have a strong affinity with any other pair of planets having the same seperation angle. Actually, for those who study equal arcs and mid-points, you will recognize that any planet or point that is mid-way between one planet in one pair and one planet in another pair will galvinize all five planets/points.

So, if we look at Emma's 2006 S/R chart we will see that taking the MC-ASC arc and mirroring it to the normal Descendant area will result in a point at 0 degrees Libra, virtually the S.Node point. Do this will be very important! This CD angle represents "where fate seems to walk into our lives and to diddle with it, uninvited." In some charts where the angles are not close to 90 degrees apart, this "new" angle can bring amazing insights into your deliniation. Of course the opposite point (don't ever forget polarities in using astrology) is "where/how you will resist or rebuff any intrusions into your life."

So, looking at Emma's 2006 return, we might be curious as to what might happen or be possible when Pluto/transiting shows up at the IC or the ASC. For those who like math you can just proportionalize the time-in-days and the movement-in-distance -- finding one will give you the other. OR, BECAUSE I ALWAYS LIKE TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE, YOU CAN USE A LITTLE CHART THAT I HAVE DEVELOPED. I will send a copy of this chart to Emma for her use as she wants to have a way of seeing what might happen when.

Essentially, this chart provides a scale of 0 to 450 degrees along the top with a comparative scale at the bottom showing 0 to 365 days, both covering the same distance on the graph. The vertical scale thows the range of differences between Sidereal Time possible in casting solar return charts, ranging from 29 hours 53 minutes to 30 hours 20 minutes in 3 minute increments.

In Emma's chart, and using a Table of Houses, we can determine what MC will have to exist to have Pluto's position on the IC. We will look to see where Pluto will be in about 4 months time, and find that it will be at/near 26 Sag. We will need a MC opposite that point --26 Gemini or a ST of 5h 42m. On my little chart, using 30h 11m (the closest point) For 180 degrees of MC movement (26 sag to 26 sag -- the same position) the days required to go this distance looks about 143 days. From June 29, 2006, if we add 143 days, we get a date of Dec. 19th. (Everyone does have a date-to-day-number conversion chart, don't they)?

So, now we just construct a simple hand drawn chart with 26 Gemini at the MC, 26 Virgo at the ASC, etc. GEE, THIS IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO EMMA'S NATAL CHART ANGLES. This is important because whenever our S/R angles, or the progressed angles, return to/near the natal position we have a "power" position where we can exercise our full chart's potential most easily.

Looking at what's angular in this progressed-angles chart for Dec. 19th, 2006 we get the following:
** Near the MC of 26 Gemini; Sun/n @ 6 Cancer.
** Near the ASC of 26 Virgo; nothing.
** Near the IC of 26 Sag; Pluto/t, Venus/t
** Near the DSC of 16 Pisces; Uranus/n, Mars/n

We can also make a mental note that the IC angle will have previously passed over some other Sag planets a little earlier in December; Mars, Mercury. So what might we say about this date, this chart?
** Emma will be approaching a decision point some 7 days later (MC moving about 10 degrees to the Sun/n position).
** Transformative events might express themselves on/near this date (Pluto/t at the IC). Authorities or agencies (Sun/t at IC conjunct Pluto) might play a role in this situation.
** Emma will make this decision for/about someone else quickly, with some immagination about how things will work out.

Now, we have to ask ourselves, is this prediction? Yes and no. By following the movement of the angles thru the chart, in sync with the two bounding solar return charts, Emma will be both following an ongoing process as well as seeing how her use of her natal chart can be used in daily life. Because she can truly reflect on her own chart, or the chart of family members, plus follow the always emerging patterns in the chart and see how they relate to her life, she is viewing possibilities that emerge from current events and experiences.

Now, if I feel up to it, I may also look at some other dates to show how this methodoly is used. Although I have typed a lot of text in this post, the whole process of generating two s/r charts on the computer, hand sketching a rough chart for Dec. 19th, and just interpreting the angular planets took a bit under 8 minutes of time. It is really so simple. I've just come from the hospital to have a pacemaker installed to help my heart not skip a beat on rare occassions so my time here will be a little scattered for another few days before all of the followup visits are done with. As always, comments and questions are welcome. Dave

[stardancer]

Hi, Emma, Dave, everyone.

Excellent stuff, Dave. I am so glad I read it. I'll keep it with my notes, of course.

[Red Emma]

Sunday morning

Don't quite know what to say about the second chart as it hasn't happened yet. But some phrases stick in my mind and both give me chills, and an idea of something I am beginning to think necessary -- sell our house and get into smaller, one-floor, quarters.

I told Dadsnook that I was concerned about my husband's health ... memory problems and occasional bouts of confusion. [It's very hard to think about this. We've been married for 60 years. ] I also said I wasn't sure how it would affect my chart. So now I know.

So...the chart's seeming prediction -- which I'm not going to talk about -- and my plans for my future seem at odds.

My plans? PR was fun. Met fascinating people, did interesting things. (Ever hold a press conference for a brand new resort owned by an Indian tribe?) However, and harking back to the third grade, my goal, always, was to write novels.

Now the boys are grown and gone, even the grandchildren are almost adults. And I have a plot: Murder and Time Travel in Death Valley. How about this new personna for Emma: New York Times Best Selling Mystery Author?

Works for me.

But just in case: If I keep our sons apprised of their father's situation, let them know of developments, maybe I won't have to make fast decisions on my own.

I'm all ready, quietly, getting the house in shape just in case.

Or is that cheating, Dadsnook? In tarot, a certain outcome is projected based on the situation as it all ready exists. If one or more elements is changed, then the outcome also changes.

Is that true for astrology, or do the Powers That Be set the stars a spinning when you're born and that's it?

[dadsnook2000]

You stated, "Is that true for astrology, or do the Powers That Be set the stars a spinning when you're born and that's it?"

We do get a birth chart and we are "stuck" with it, more or less. The great thing is that we have progressions (symbolic time) and transits (real time) as well as things like solar returns (cycles) that bring a variety of influences into our lives. Then we have to consider our interactions with the people and charts in our lives on a personal, career and environmental (world, nation, state, city/town) levels. I believe that we choose what/when to react and when not to.

In this way we use our charts to our own advantage. We choose to use planetary influences in various ways, adding complexity and sophistication to our charts and symbols. In other words, we "personalize" our charts and responses. In this way we work with the universe and we create our own reality using the tools we are born with, the tools we pick up along the way, and the tools we create to serve our needs.

As we grow in this way, we become the master of our chart in large portion, and the chart becomes more of a timing factor to keep us in sync with our own universal place and destiny. We are here, it seems, to creatively express ourselves in the fullest and most satisfying way. Knowing about astrology frees us to do just that.

This is why "good astrology" is based as much on dialog and sharing as it is good practice and knowledge on the part of the astrologer. Yes, we can often make unbelievable statements and see things that leave others awestruck, but that is not what it is all about. Its about helping others to understand where they are coming from, where they might choose to go, what they can do to take charge of their future and comfort in life. That really isn't anything different from what we use the tarot for. Dave

[dadsnook2000]

As a means of providing another example of how to "daily progress" a solar return chart's angles we look at Emma's 2006 S/R, recognizing that the nodal axis seems important, and examine what happens when the N.Node comes to the progressed ASC. We can determine that there is a distance of about 90 degrees for the MC to go to the natal N.Node position. Being familiar with an ephemeris -- everyone should have one even if they use computer software to run their charts -- we would see that an ASC of 16 to 18 degrees Cancer would require for 45 degrees latitude (her present location) an MC of 25 Pisces WHICH IS WERE TRANSITING N.NODE WILL BE AT IN EARLY SEPTEMBER.

All of this can be easily seen in the ephemeris. Around Sept. 6th, her daily progressed chart angles will have natal N.Node at the ASC and transiting N.Node at the MC. So, we sketch up a simple chart for this date:
MC@25 Pisces, conjunct N.Node transiting
ASC @ 18 Cancer, conjunct N.Node natal, Pluto natal @ 14 Cancer
IC @ 25 Virgo, conjunct natal ASC, Mars transiting at 29 with Mercury and the Sun having just been passed by the IC angle.

So, we might expect around Sept. 6th to experience or have an opportunity for these symbols to express themselves:

ASC at Pluto/n; Deep seated issues may surface relative to one's family axis stability or one's working environment.

ASC at N.Node/n; Emma deals with social issues, doing something new for her. Perhaps a new friend or a friend playing a new role. Does this have anything to do with an action taken (Sun/n) about nine days earlier - Aug. 27/28? (The ASC angle would have progressed over the natal Sun position then).

MC/p over Uranus/n about 3 days later (Sept 9th). Are changes underway? Or will an old friend offer advice or help?

IC/p over Mars/t about 3 days later (Sept 9th). Mars/n is in the 7th house. How will this transiting Mars play out? Disagreement over plans? Mars being a personal planet, only Emma can say how she experiences "Mars" energy as a typical experience -- perhaps she projects it outwardly thru social or cooperative practices (7th house) or as raw creative energy such as needed in a public relations job. Since Mars (here) is at the fourth angle, we could assume it may have more to do with fundamental issues, the home, or a change of some sort.

Whatever, as Emma follows this process she will be able to anticipate and shape her use of, and response to, these planetary symbols. The strength that comes from seeing ahead the nature of the circumstances evolving in her life will leave her with more confidence and time to deal with life in a manner which is more productive and positive for her. Dave

[dadsnook2000]

I have sent Red Emma files of the Sept 6th daily angles chart and the Dec. 19 daily angles chart. I have also provided her with a chart I use to reduce all of the complex math that normally goes along with progressing a solar return chart to a date between solar returns. This chart, and the handy "day# to date" chart are both a bit too large to post here.

For those who are seriously interested in this form of astrology and feel comfortable with math and manual calculations, and who have and use an ephemeris, I can e-mail you this material. You can PM me with your direct e-mail address. Dave