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OSHO Zen Tarot Study Group: The Master....

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Grizabella  Grizabella is offline
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I'm sorry I didn't answer this at the time you posted it. I didn't see it.

I did ultimately take this card out of my deck just because I can't stand to look at it.

I don't believe this man was a Master. You can tell to look at his eyes, for one thing. I believe he was a brilliant man who studied many religions and who may have personally endorsed Zen for his own principle beliefs. But I believe he capitalized on that belief system because it's full of such deep personal truth for so many people. He corrupted the belief system, however, to gain his own ends and in the end, I think he was not at all representative of a Zen Master.

Nothing is all black or all white, however, and I don't believe that this deck should be thrown away like a baby with the bathwater because of that. I think Ma Deva Padma's representations are still deeply full of rich truth. In some cards, it's quite blatant how Osho's followers were taught to feel about government, social mores and morality, but I still love the deck and aside from the Master, I have no argument with it.
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Paulb  Paulb is offline
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Ooh, a debate!!

I think we need to seperate the inspitation from the card from the artist here.

The card I like. More for it's meanings than it's content. A teacher doesn't teach, he shares: a like that. A master is only master of himself. Very true.

The imgae of Osho on the card does appear to be narcissistic, but then he's not the artist. How much input he had into the designs is anyone's guess. The image does appear to be cold and hypnotic, and I do find it offputting.

Don't know anything abotu Osho himself and vey little about his teachings, so no comment on the man. I'm of the opinion we was against "government, morality and social mores", as I would be myself, but without being taught to be. I come from a very conservative part of the planet and find all the 'institutions' very conformist.

Oh well. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

Now, for me anyway, onto the minors...
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Nope, no debate. Sorry.

In the book, Ma Deva says what a great influence Osho was on her creation of the deck. Even if she didn't say so, the very name of the deck would give it away, wouldn't it?

But what I didn't agree with was Osho capitalizing on Buddhist precepts to achieve his own ends, and his corruption of them as he presented them to his followers. He was very little different than a Jim Jones or a David Koresh. (Not that I believe what happened to Koresh was warranted, mind you.)

Don't get me wrong. I even agree with some of his judgments about things. But while on a personal level I may agree, I don't believe those personal beliefs should be done with what he did with them. I saw the harm he and his followers did. I live in Oregon, so I'm much closer to what happened than some. Ma Deva was his right-hand person at one time so what she says in the book is true about his strong influence in creation of the deck.

This morning I was reading what the book has to say about the Politics card and I do agree with what it says. I'm kind of radical that way. I've always been a revolutionary at heart. When I was 15 and seeing my friends go to Vietnam, I spotted the naked Emporer and haven't ever admired him.

Ssooooo----I stand by what I said about Osho, but love the deck and agree with some of the sentiments behind it. Most of all with the Buddhist concepts. But I do spot where it definitely espouses Rahjnishi "stuff" mixed in.
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Now I HAVE to go and find out more about Osho. I know very little, and what I do know I don't like very much which is why I never investigated any deeper. I do not like the master card and feel that the image makes me think of what (little) I know about Osho, which admittedly is more gut than investigation, and is unattractive to me. Oddly enough, the politics card was on the bottom of my deck the other day when I did a reading - and turned the deck over to see what the bottom card could add. I was quite horrified at the book meaning because it was so didactic - I mean, I have known priests who were real, caring, wonderful individuals, and I know a couple of politicians ditto, although admittedly they are at the lower levels of the pyramid, but in this country so many politicians appear to be corrupt! But I also agree in the main with what it said. And I must also add that the card in that particular reading made me really think very hard again about what I was doing and why.
I love the deck - it gives me magical readings. Perhaps knowing less about the man himself is better as it will not colour my perceptions, and when I read in the book certain ideas I entirely disagree with, I can consider why that is so, and then find my own way. Maybe I should throw the book away and go on my own instinct! But I still want to know why some of the images are as they are, or at least why they were intended to be that way.
Yes please, Paulb - on to the minors
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I've been wondering what I would say about the Master card.

I'm still wondering.

I don't think I like it.

I don't think the deck needs it.

I have not yet removed it.

It's a decision I make again every time I pick up the deck.

Why haven't I removed it?

I'm wondering about the answer to that question, too.
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dingboo  dingboo is offline
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Hi everyone.

It seems there is a long time no one answers this topic. But since I ended up here in search of knowledge, I'll leave my opinions as well.

This card really looks different from the others. It's not self-explanatory, there isn't a theme going on in it. And, of course, it's a straight reference to Osho as a Master, drawing a limit to what should be considered one. But I do think this card may be there for some reason, either theirs (the tarot creators passing on theirs teachings) or ours (what we are able to understand of it). That's why I think it's a good idea to keep this card in the deck. It sure is an extra piece of information that can come up.

I once tried to read the Osho Tarot about my relationship with a workmate. I picked the "Instantaneous" spread (straight translation from the tarot book, from portuguese to english. Sorry if that's not correct!). This was the result:

1 - Consciousness - Ace of clouds
2 - Adventure - Page of Rainbows
3 - XVI Thunderbolt
4 - The Master

My interpretation was that I was acting correctly towards her, but she didn't really care about how to act towards me. This should cause trouble in the future (Thunderbolt), which would reveal to be a necessary experience to my personal growth (The Master).

Some weeks later, since I felt I had reasons once again to consult the Tarot about the same thing, I decided to do so, and this time I picked the Diamond Spread (sorry once again for the straight translation). I asked "What do I need to know about my workmate?". The result was:

1 - The Master
2 - XVIII Past Lives
3 - X Change
4 - Friendliness - 2 of water
5 - XVI Thunderbolt


This gave me the chills... Specially considering that I don't "cut piles", but I spread the cards on an arch and pick them randomly... So, "The Master" and "Thunderbolt" didn't come up because they were together.

This time my interpretation was little different. Possibly I had all the necessary knowledge and tools to deal with the situation, or it is really something to bring me personal growth (The Master). My workmate represents a problem that has a pattern of repetition in my life, rather than being really connected to my Past Lives. Change is pretty much that - change. Friendliness is how I should act towards her, being gentle and polite despite what happens, specially considering the end the situation will meet (thunderbolt).

I'm not sure if I should have posted the complete interpretations of the spreads, but I wanted to demonstrate two things: first that the card Master may be full of meaning, either we like it or not (personally I like it better than that thunderbold... lol...). Second thing is that there are other meanings we can understand from that card, those are some interpretations I give to it.

I agree with you all that I'd rather have the old man from Innocence for a master than Osho. But that's not the themes we should consider when we ask the Tarot something.

Wish you all the best!
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Smile The Master....


The Major Arcana is a Journey from The Fool through to Completion.........
now what happens when you have completed the journey..... what state have you reached..........?.
This Journey could be one of a personal journey......Spiritual...

Could be a journey within the workplace...
how about a journey about a project you started and worked through and have know completed....... what is your knowledge about that project, the information that came through......?

Think of this card beyond the picture, beyond what you perceive, beyond what you see and others see on the surface..... this is what you have achieved, how you can feel about yourself with all that hard work, the hard journeying behind you...........you can now begin a new project, a new idea, a new pathway...........

the Master is the Opposite of the Fool but then he transforms into the Fool to begin a new journey to transform back into the Master... The everchanging cycle on new paths........but underneath he grows deeper as a Master as he begins to understand greater knowledge....

Hope helps.....(Reading these threads being me alot of clarity within myself.... Thank you for your posts..)

Blessed Be!

Vesta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella
I don't like this card. Every time it shows up, I just feel disgusted. I don't like the look on his face and I didn't like the man himself. I'm not going to take it out of the deck, though. Nothing and nobody is all bad. That's probably my lesson to learn from this card. He wasn't a Master of anything but trickery and deceit, greed and manipulation while he was here. I'm not surprised so many people look at the card and say they don't like it.

I agree that the old man with the grasshopper on his finger is truly the Master.

Lol. But if you don't like the card, will it affect the way you do your readings with it? I don't really like it either, I dont know. He doesnt really speak anything for me. Like can we say our own meanings to these cards when we interpret them?
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when you complete a path on your journey before you begin a new one... who do become within about that topic?

You become an then you begin a new path complete it as an expert, a master at what you have achieved....

Think about the journey you have taken to get where you are today?

where are from from 0-21 from The fool to the World from how you begin to how you finished, then take one more step to become The Master...

work with the Major Arcana... where are you on the cycle of life, cycle of journey, signpost of this individual path.......Who are YOU within your life?

Vesta
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I pulled one card for my father and I got this card, The Master. Another time I asked about a man I used to date and I pulled one card and got The Master.

Hmmm.... Both men are controlling and somewhat manipulative. So my first experiences with this card were negative ones. But I keep myself open to it. The Master to me means wisdom, guidance, transcendence. So it will be interesting to see how this card comes out in future readings.

I like the Osho Zen because each card has its own title. For a poor reader like me, it helps. Sometimes I simply pull one card and there is the answer, very bluntly. Sometimes it's as simple as that.
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