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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Muses And Mantegna


I've noticed that all of the nine Muses except one - Talia - has a circle or sphere incorporated into the image. Does anyone have any thoughts on why she alone would be excluded?
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Huck  Huck is offline
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The 9 Muses are not the only figures with a circle in the Mantegna Tarocchi.

http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/Mantegna/
http://trionfi.com/mantegna/s/
http://trionfi.com/mantegna/e/
all from:
http://trionfi.com/0/m/00/

for instance Apollo - but Apollo, which is the sun, has a circle filled at one half with stars, likely indicating, that it is known, that the sun also shines in the night, but then just somewhere else.
It seems, that Thalia has no circle, but when you know, that Talia is the Muse of a"muse"ment .... Thalia is also the only sitting Muse, well, she sits on it, so it is hidden. She has some sense for jokes.


Clio .. that's the Muse of the Tarot History ... :-) ... hides it only half. She stands on a swan, and Apollo sits on 2 swans. I guess, she has her reasons ... like history, which always tells the true story only with maximal 50%.

Nearly all Muses have the circle near their feet, but Erato (love poetry) has a second circle in her hand - if one looks precisely, one recognizes, that this circle is a moon. Love poetry without moon, that looks hardly possible, cause the lovers are used to meet in the night. And usually the poet feels tempted to care, that his love poetry is only read by one person.
Urania is the only one with a circle in her hand and there is NO circle at her feet. She's the Muse of astrology/astronomy and of heaven at night and she is named Urania, which means "female Heaven" in contrast to Uranos (heaven) ... this old guy, who made children with Gaia (earth).

A circle appears also at:

24 (4 numbers above 20, Apollo): a small circle appears with Geometria for natural reasons to express 1-2-3-4. 1 is the circle, 2 the line, 3 the triangle and 4 the quadrat.

The last 4 in the C-series 21-30:
27: Poesia, and it's the same circle mix as with Apollo, cause poets love Apollo.
28: Philosophia - NO Circle, but Athena with a shield, which shows the head of he Medusa ... which, as far I remember, descended from the wild marriage of Gaia with Pontos, the true background of a genital, which did fall in the ocean to form the goddess of love.
29: Astrologia - here it has only stars. Astra means star.
30: Theologia: which explains astrologia and the order of the world (the circle also has stars). The circle is much bigger now than with Astrologia, and it's at the feet of the male-female figure, which likely means: "Astrologia tries to explain it, but Theologia can explain it."

I should not to forget to mention, that Musica sits on a swan - Apollo and Clio are also connected to the swan, but both without any instrument of music (which all other Muses have beside Urania).

31: Iliaco has a sun-moon-circle
32: Chronico has a dragon-circle
33: Cosmico has the same filled circle, which was already used by Apollo and Poesia.

All three refer to astronomical values and all 3 are winged - as astrologia.

The circle-symbol reappears with the last 3 of all cards, so answering the first 3 cards of 31-50:

48: Octava Sphera, circle with stars like Astrologia and Theologia, the figure is winged as 31, 32, 33 and Astrologia.
49: Primo Mobile, unfilled circle, the winged guy looks like a bocchia-player in action
50: Prima causa, a circle and circles within the circle. The model of the speres.

---

The spheres were connected to music since old times, so they do find a place
with Apollo and the Muses.

... :-) .. does this answer your question?

###
The dragon-symbol appears with 22 (Loica), 32 (Chronico), 35 (Prudentia), 42 (Mercurio with Caduceus) and 47 (Saturnus).

02: is the Fameio. He has a closed pot, which might hide something.
12: is Urania. She's the only muse with a circle in her hand
22: is Loica .. the circle is now a wild dragon in the hand
32: is Chronico .. the dragon is still in the hand, but now tamed to a circle
42: is Mercurio ... two dragons now, still in the hand

... that's the 2-series.

47: Saturnus knows the dragon ... he is related to Chronico, naturally.
35: Prudentia has the dragon at her feet. She has a mirror like Apollo (20) and a female-male double-head like Theologia (30).

20 + 30 = 50
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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck
Thalia is also the only sitting Muse, well, she sits on it, so it is hidden. She has some sense for jokes.
I never thought of that!
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Scion  Scion is offline
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Hey Abrac:

I was doing some research for an article and stumbled over something that reminded me of this thread and your question. Thalia's spehere was stolen by Capella! This quote is from p. 141 of Seznec's Survival of the Pagan Gods and I think it's the answer you're looking for:

Quote:
There are eight strings, and eight musical modes; there are eight celestial spheres - the spheres of the seven planets, with the addition of the heaven of the fixed stars, caelum stellatum. But the Muses? What shall be done with the ninth, who would make one too many? This difficulty has long since been resolved: Martianus Capella, who also assigned one celestial sphere to each of the Muses, decreed that Thalia should remain on earth... It is for this reason that Thalia, instead of taking part in the music of the spheres, rests in the lap of the silent and immobile earth."
Hope that helps.

Scion
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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Right on Scion, that's awesome!
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Huck  Huck is offline
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Seznec: "There are eight strings, and eight musical modes; there are eight celestial spheres - the spheres of the seven planets, with the addition of the heaven of the fixed stars, caelum stellatum. But the Muses? What shall be done with the ninth, who would make one too many? This difficulty has long since been resolved: Martianus Capella, who also assigned one celestial sphere to each of the Muses, decreed that Thalia should remain on earth... It is for this reason that Thalia, instead of taking part in the music of the spheres, rests in the lap of the silent and immobile earth."

Interesting story, which I didn't know, thanks ...

Earlier we collected the following material about 3 different orders of the Muses (with special thanks to John Meador):


1. http://trionfi.com/0/m/11
Muses-row of Lazzarelli and Mantegna Tarocchi
... / adapted from Fulgentius with similarities to Hesiod


2. http://trionfi.com/0/m/12
Muses-row of Gaffurio
... /adapted from Martianus Capella

And indeed Thalia is here oriented towards earth (COMPARE THE PICTURE)


3. http://trionfi.com/0/m/13
... / Muses row of Ficino 1469

here Thalia is given to the moon


Our earlier researches had the result, that Lazzarelli / Mantegna Tarocchi followed Fulgentius.
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