Navigators of the Mystic SEA - 8 of Pentacles (split from thread in Tarot Decks)

Little Baron

In another thread, someone said that the book is not very good. And from what I have read, I might agree. It doesn't seem to have very concrete definitions for the cards, and I wonder if I could not come up with my own reference to the images better without it. I am not saying that I need to be spoonfed, but in the minors, some cards depart quite heavily from imagery and symbolism that I understand from the different traditions. This is all very well, but I do need it to be backed up with commentary, if I am to understand the reasons for doing so.

It seems that often, these larger volumes that come with decks are not the godsend they initially appear. They almost confuse more than aid understanding. The Voodoo one is another fine example. Loads of waffle, when what you really want to understand is what the card might mean in divination. I felt, in that case, that I learnt more about the loa and orishas through online searches than I ever did through that book. And here, after reading some of the commentary, I feel more lost. The 'Eight of Pentacles' is such a card. I have no idea where to go with that one.

LB
 

Papageno

LittleBuddha said:
The Voodoo one is another fine example. Loads of waffle, when what you really want to understand is what the card might mean in divination. I felt, in that case, that I learnt more about the loa and orishas through online searches than I ever did through that book. And here, after reading some of the commentary, I feel more lost. The 'Eight of Pentacles' is such a card. I have no idea where to go with that one.

LB

this particular Eight of Pentacles is not what I'm generally accustomed to either.
the title of economy ie. economy of resources is unique. but it's much more than that. it's so superficial. I'm missing something important here which is frustrating because I feel like it's "hidden in plain sight" and just out of reach.

as for the NOVT the intent is to provide a vehicle and opportunity for intimate dialogue between yourself and the Loa and Orisha.
it depends on how you've approached this issue; coming to terms with said deities, but it is vitally important that you come to terms with that one way or another. Brevity is also another key factor, at least to start off with.
in defense of Sally Ann Glassman, I must say that the book is very well written and essential.......but only to a point because the book is purposely limited and you have to understand that. it has been crippled so to speak by design. the key is interaction. that is is intent and focus of this deck.
 

MeeWah

Note the intentness & the activities of the two figures on Navigators' 8-Pentacles. Whilst one figure looks off into the distance as if in preparation or to get a lay of the land (pertains to the mental & the perceptive; & extends to the higher understanding), the other busy with the hands-on (the applied & the practical). Alludes to as above, so below. & that of the number 8.

That which is balanced characteristic of the number 8. Hence, "Economy" to refer to the dilligent & effective use of knowledge & resources, such as acquired through life experiences & endeavours. Utilizing them effectively & wisely avoids the undue stress or the drain on the resources, but maintains the flow without interruption.

I am sure the card has more complexities, but those reflections occur at the moment.

Btw: I started reading the book. Or more accurately, trying to read it. Apparently the deck based on the Tree of Life or the Kabbalah & other associations. A familiarity with the Kabbalah would help immensely with the use of this deck. Based on a different kabbalistic system & according to its creator's understanding.

The writing style strikes of the meditative & inner expressions so not really conducive for the logical understanding. The deck strikes as of the meditative artwork, too. I get more from the deck than the book, & likely because the words unable to convey what the imagery imparts. & also because the ideas from one person's unique experiences & etc.
 

Papageno

thanks so much MeeWah, that's tremendously helpful.
 

MeeWah

8 composed of 2 circles, one poised atop the other in perfect alignment & balance.

The circle or O represents the superconscious or the wholistic mind. & before manifestation (after which it becomes 1). Hence, represents eternity; the flow of the life force in an endless loop or the kundalini. The serpent. Knowledge. & its application, use or mis-use.

The top O the higher mind; the bottom O, the earthly or material mind. & relates to the concept of 'as above, so below'.

8 the number of evolution, karma, equilibrium, strength, character, decision, endeavour, balance, regeneration. Also of fate, materialism.

Its astrological equivalent Scorpio.

It refers to understanding received from enlightenment. Denotes realization or that accomplished by focussed endeavour.
 

Papageno

that's brilliant. I guess I should buy the book after all.
I could never have grasped the 8 of pentacles without your help.
I can see where I was right on with the 5 of cups but went astray with the 5 of swords. I recognized the Mars aspect and power of regeneration in that card but according to the website, misinterpreted it as a recycling of violence rather than the demise of the lower self.
 

MeeWah

Papageno said:
...I guess I should buy the book after all.
I could never have grasped the 8 of pentacles without your help.
I can see where I was right on with the 5 of cups but went astray with the 5 of swords. I recognized the Mars aspect and power of regeneration in that card but according to the website, misinterpreted it as a recycling of violence rather than the demise of the lower self.

Actually, the inspiration not from the book, wherein barely made headway, in part because know next to nothing of the kabbalistic. So resort to other means--reflection on the imagery, the colours & the number.

See it only fair to provide some definitive information on the book because Julia A. Turk's approach to the pips from 10 to Ace/1; also based on their correlations to the Tree of Life.

"Part II - The Pip Cards

"The 40 cards in the Navigators Tarot which comprise the "Pips" are the same as a normal deck of cards in that they are numbered from ace to 10 and divided into four suits. However, in this deck we consider the tens first and move on down to the nines, and so on, finishing with the aces, which are the highest cards in the pips. Each of the numbers--tens, nines, etc., are assigned to a sphere (or sephirah) in the Tree of Life of the Hermetic Cabala. Here, each number is preceded by a brief list of the correspondences attributed to that sphere. Included in the correspondences of each sphere is a particular color which represents this sephirah. Thus, the eights, attributed to Hod, which is orange, all have figures in them which are colored orange. For example, the threes are black, sixes yellow; this system makes it easy to recognize the origins of the cards as they appear."

There is far more to this discussion, but prefer to not quote more than a paragraph from this chapter in a single post. Shall return to quote an exerpt on the 8-Pentacles as an example of the writing.

& appreciate the kind words. Glad to be of help.
 

Little Baron

Just to say, MeeWah, I am yet to read your posts. I am waiting til a little later, when I have a cocoa and am in the right frame of mind to absorb them properly.

Thanks so much for contributing. Your help is always much appreciated.

LB
 

MeeWah

Navigators' Eight of Pentacles - economy

The discussion of each suit preceded by a page of associations. A useful resource, the words & phrases encourage the reflective & thoughtful--& some have a mantra-like tone. Since this section lengthy, shall quote instead from the interpretative passage following it. Pentacles the first suit.


"The suit of pentacles represents material possessions, particularly money. There is a way with money which is intelligent because it is used to build something, and equally there is a method whereby money can be stored successfully. On a rational level, it must be remembered that money itself is only a tool--a link in the chain between effort and sustenance. To sustain, it must be saved; to gain, it must be used as a living sculpture of one's will. The number eight, assigned to the sphere of Hod, is associated with Mercury, the spirit of intelligence. This indicates you will make some good decisions regarding your financial investments. The bridge behind the figures represents the past, which one figure examines in detail through a telescope. This action indicates we can learn from the past on occasions when we have been imprudent with capital. Then we may safely use the experience to plan for the future.

"Looking through a telescope enlarges and clarifies that which we examine. This instrument was extensively used by Navigators in the past before modern technology rendered it obsolete. However, the telescope is stlil used by scientists to see further into the ineffable universe around us, and may give us indications of our future as well as our past."


I see 8-Pentacles related to the practical intellect & its capacity to understand from experiences, particularly of the past. Sometimes, in order to access a broader & clearer picture of that being examined or divined, a different perspective (thinking out of the box) needed. The "telescope" a metaphor for that perspective--as is the term of "Navigators" a metaphor for man or the soul journey.

Herein, too, the references to the karmic & balance. & that not learned or otherwise assimilated to encounter again, though not as much as a retributive force as much as part of a cosmic system of checks & balances.

Further may be extrapolated that if man to learn anything of real & true value (insofar as knowledge can lead to the truth), a study of his history in order. That applies to the individual & to man as a species.