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What is the game "Scartino"

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What is the game "Scartino"


Moddies - if this is in the wrong section please move.

I recently bought a book called "Lords & Ladies of the Italian Lakes" by Edgcumbe Staley which I bought for the amount of pictures it has in it of the Visconti & Sforza families ... but it also has a plate illustration of women playing a card game called Scartino. On the card there looks to be the Sign of Taurus.

I have done a search and most of the information is in Italian, which I dont read. If anyone has information which I can access and read - or can give me some explaination, it would be greatly appreciated.

Blessings Elven x
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If no-one else is able to reply more appropriately, I'll have a look at some books when I get home. I was under the impression, however, that the term applies to varied card games (in part dependent on locality) having some similarities to 500, tarot, and bridge (all in gaming-type related).
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Thankyou jmd

Im not sure if this is relevant, but is there also a game called 'Mora'? I dont understand the word in the context of the writings, but it is used amongst the text -
it says .... "and all games of chance - bar the gestuculatory Mora - were played craftily".
it relates and describes the past times of the people - what they do (except on Sundays ) during a time of rest and retreat during the day in Lacus Verbanus" - "Verbano" - Lombardy.

Blessings Elven x
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Morra


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elven
Thankyou jmd

Im not sure if this is relevant, but is there also a game called 'Mora'? I dont understand the word in the context of the writings, but it is used amongst the text -
it says .... "and all games of chance - bar the gestuculatory Mora - were played craftily".
"Il gioco della Morra" is ancient but it is not a card game, I don't know the English name of this game!
http://www.amicidellamorra.com/ILGIOCO3.htm

Have you seen the beautiful lakes of Lombardy?

Marco
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Thankyou marco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
"Il gioco della Morra" is ancient but it is not a card game, I don't know the English name of this game!
My goodness - it is old isnt it! I think it looks like something similar like 'rock paper sizzors' - a hand signal game which - though I couldnt read the text in Italian, it looks as if it has a following, and maybe involve some gambling?? The scoring looks complicated though
This certainly helps with putting a picture together - even in my mind, of what people were doing in their leisure time, and what sort of atmosphere there might have been around the lake areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Have you seen the beautiful lakes of Lombardy?
No unfortunately I am reading about the area and the families of the lake areas during the Visconti times. The book is from an author who's family is from there - he wrote the book in the 1800's, which no matter how descriptive he is - could never be the same as being there in prson One day maybe ....

I tried again to do a search on 'Scartino' but this thread came up - and one other, in which Ross has some references, but I cant find the bit about the game ...

The painting of game being played by 5 people (woman) is by Michelino Da Bedozzo. No reference to him through searches as yet, though I might start using google - that might help - off to wiki to see if theres anything there

Blessings Elven x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elven
The painting of game being played by 5 people (woman) is by Michelino Da Bedozzo. No reference to him through searches as yet, though I might start using google - that might help - off to wiki to see if theres anything there
I think the spelling is "Michelino da Besozzo": Google images will give you a number of results.

If you come and visit Lombardy, please let me know. I would be glad to show you some of our wonderful lakes: almost as beautiful as Valinor. :-)

Marco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elven
The painting of game being played by 5 people (woman) is by Michelino Da Bedozzo. No reference to him through searches as yet, though I might start using google - that might help - off to wiki to see if theres anything there

Blessings Elven x
Michelino da Besozzo is correct, he's also painter of the "oldest Tarot".

http://trionfi.com/0/b/
http://trionfi.com/0/k/marc/02/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
If you come and visit Lombardy, please let me know. I would be glad to show you some of our wonderful lakes: almost as beautiful as Valinor. :-)
... as Valinor!! I almost called the travel agent!! It wont be soon, but one day you might get a PM from this travelling elve - I'll have to brush up on my boating skills though - especially swan gondolas - thankyou Marco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck
Michelino da Besozzo is correct, he's also painter of the "oldest Tarot".
Thankyou both for the correct spelling! I checked the book and I didnt copy it incorrectly - the book is incorrect in the spelling under the plate

Due to the age of the book Im not quite sure - but one of the cards seem to have a figure on it - or a castle ... - can't tell ... the card painted is lying on the table - so even in the painting it may be hard to detect what it is. I will do a search on the painting, now I know the artists name!

Im just waiting for jmd to see what he has in the way of references to 'Scartino' - if it defines a card game, or something else.

Blessings Elven x
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I am gathering Scartino was a game of chance, other card games are mentioned, but I am not sure of the dates or their introduction - Reveil des Morts, L'Imperiale, Ecarte & Flusso are also mentioned - but Scartino seemed very popular and the earliest of the games.

I bookmarked the links Huck - thankyou!

Blessings Elven x
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http://www.pagat.com/national/italy.html

"78 card Tarocco Piemontese

21 trumps, double ended, named and numbered 1-21 in arabic numerals, the fool (matto) numbered 0 and the four suits consisting of king (re), queen (donna), cavalier (cavallo), jack (fante) and pip cards from 1 to 10.

The basic game is Scarto, and there is also a game called Mitigāti, with enhanced gambling features. These games are now rather rare, but are still played in and around Torino. Even rarer is the Tarocchi game played near Asti with 54 cards from the Piemontese pack. For details of both see A History of Games Played with the Tarot Pack - Volume 1 (Edwin Mellen Press, 2004), by Michael Dummett and John McLeod."

Hm ... perhaps "Scartino" is the small version of "Scarto" (with 54 cards only)?

"Scartina" means the low or not counting playing card (Italian wordbook).
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