Making an important decision: but how to interpret?

Sophie

I have recently gone through a very painful episode of breaking up - for the second time - with a man I love with all my heart. Or rather - he broke up with me, but I was getting to that point myself, because the situation was getting too difficult and confused.

Briefly - I met him when he was living separate from his wife of 30 years. We fell in love, and he flew back to see her and ask for a divorce, then flew back to me. In the meantime, she fell apart, and drummed up support from his entire family and "clan" (he comes from a close-knit community, though he's moved away from them and followed his own road for many years - but he still feels loyalty). They have grown-up children. His feelings of guilt got the better of him, and he agreed to give the marriage another chance. He left me in August last year, the most painful breakup I ever had. We kept in touch, off and on. Then early this year - in February - he started getting closer again, and finally suggested coming to see me for my birthday. We could talk things over. He came for 3 days - 3 blissful days - but by the end of it, he was none the wiser. Or should I say, none the braver. That is, he still loves me, but feels tied to her, all the more because she's been making an effort (of the type - dyeing her hair my colour :rolleyes:).

I saw him a second time, this time in the country where he works (also in Africa), which is about 1500 miles from here. Again, we had a blissful week-end.

But in the meantime, he admitted it all to his wife, and things got nasty. I was feeling the strain of being a sideline - not a position that sits well with me - and he was feeling the strain of being torn between his wife and their grown-up children, and his love for me; and between different kinds of loyalty - to me, to himself, to the family, to her, to the clan.


So we broke up. He told me not to wait for him. He still doesn't know what he'll do about his marriage, but what he really means is - he still doesn't know if he'll ever have the courage to separate, and without that, there can't be anything for us. I plan to tell him that though I love him, I won't see him again until he's free. I know him - after a few weeks, he'll be back in touch and wanting more contact. So I have to get things straight from the start.


Now I am in a position where I have to decide what I must do - for me. I am feeling raw, and angry, so a part of me wants just to blast out at him, slam the door and give up forever. Another part, the still quiet voice I hear in meditation, tells me no, don't give up. Let go of expectations, but don't give up hope and leave the door open. Stay in touch at a distance.

Well, I am a diviner, so I turned to divination to help me make my decision.


Tarot is making not a bit of sense - hardly surprising. Tarot is always the hardest method for me when I am in this emotional turmoil. I-Ching, my dear old Chinese friend, is counselling perseverance and optimism to get through what is a rough patch between us, and predicting a good outcome for us. And I thought to ask the Sabian Symbols, because after all, it has much ancient wisdom too.


So the question I asked was: What will happen to him and me - to our relationship - if I don't give up, if I keep up hope and leave a door open for it?

This is the symbol I drew:

CANCER 28
AN INDIAN GIRL INTRODUCES HER COLLEGE BOYFRIEND TO HER ASSEMBLED TRIBE

This made me laugh! He is a member of a "tribe", but like the Indian girl who went to college, he's chosen a different route for himself. Yet the tribe and family are very important for him, and he'd simply be incapable of doing something that would sever him from them - especially from his family (his grown-up children).

On the thread about this symbol, I saw a lot about Pocahontas, which is a nice story. I am the outsider in this scenario, the white foreign chick.

But what do I make of it in our case? That there is a chance for us, because he will find a way to bridge our worlds? That he would never do so, because of clan loyalties?

My instinct is to say - it means he will find a way. He'll work through things in his mind, between him and his family, and manage to get to a point where he can introduce me into the whole of his life, and not simply the sidelines. This gives me hope, and helps me decide to stay the course.

I'd like your comments on all this. Thanks!
 

tink27

Fudugazi said:
Now I am in a position where I have to decide what I must do - for me. I am feeling raw, and angry, so a part of me wants just to blast out at him, slam the door and give up forever. Another part, the still quiet voice I hear in meditation, tells me no, don't give up. Let go of expectations, but don't give up hope and leave the door open. Stay in touch at a distance.

Well, I am a diviner, so I turned to divination to help me make my decision.


Tarot is making not a bit of sense - hardly surprising. Tarot is always the hardest method for me when I am in this emotional turmoil. I-Ching, my dear old Chinese friend, is counselling perseverance and optimism to get through what is a rough patch between us, and predicting a good outcome for us. And I thought to ask the Sabian Symbols, because after all, it has much ancient wisdom too.


So the question I asked was: What will happen to him and me - to our relationship - if I don't give up, if I keep up hope and leave a door open for it?

This is the symbol I drew:

CANCER 28
AN INDIAN GIRL INTRODUCES HER COLLEGE BOYFRIEND TO HER ASSEMBLED TRIBE

This made me laugh! He is a member of a "tribe", but like the Indian girl who went to college, he's chosen a different route for himself. Yet the tribe and family are very important for him, and he'd simply be incapable of doing something that would sever him from them - especially from his family (his grown-up children).

On the thread about this symbol, I saw a lot about Pocahontas, which is a nice story. I am the outsider in this scenario, the white foreign chick.

But what do I make of it in our case? That there is a chance for us, because he will find a way to bridge our worlds? That he would never do so, because of clan loyalties?

My instinct is to say - it means he will find a way. He'll work through things in his mind, between him and his family, and manage to get to a point where he can introduce me into the whole of his life, and not simply the sidelines. This gives me hope, and helps me decide to stay the course.

I'd like your comments on all this. Thanks!

Hi Fudugazi,

I can feel your pain, and I'd love to have the answer to your question. But for now I'll only offer a perspective to this symbol. Perhaps it will stir something within you and give you some help.

How often do we tell ourselves to keep the peace, to compromise to tell ourselves we're okay with a restrictive situation, when inside we feel hurt, abandoned and fenced in.

To me, this symbol is challenging you to gain isnight into the dynamics of this relationship so you can begin the healing process. Imagine the tribe's surprise when they meet the college boy for the first time. What we would probably see is all different kinds of behaviours and/or attitudes ranging from child-like wonder to anger, fear and even childlish reactions. Your observation of others I think is the key and also how it resonates in yourself......same attitudes and behaviors.

You're not ready to let go, but this symbol asks you.......all that you are doing is it benefiting or hindering you? The answer may come in suprising and unexpected ways. You may feel irritated, impatient, oppressed by expectations or overwhelmed by your efforts to do the right things This is not a time for action.....it's a time to validate your feelings and perceptions and to allow yourself to express them verbally so you can simply be aware of them. If judgements arise, acknowledge them but Don't let them make your decisions for you. There is more to learn and understand about how you perceive, observe and react to your situation.

This indian girl is operating from her own inner core. She isn't worried about the outcome, she has set her sights on higher goals. And I'm sure others tried ways of stopping her, but she viewed their concerns in a quiet manner. There is a risk with this symbol, which could possibly be an expression of an unconscious instinct, which we all bear in different degrees and levels.

I get the feeling your 'man is a gentle man with a deep sensitivity for others feelings.....and he's trying hard to keep an inner balance for all concerned. It is very hard for him to do the 'right thing'.

Hope this helps if just a bit.

My deepest regards,

tink :love:
 

Sophie

Hi Tink,

Thanks for your words of comfort. I agree, it's not a time for decisions, though I am so desperate to get out of this twilight zone that I would dearly like to take one! I do, of course, need healing. We both do, though he's unlikely to get it. He has been on Prozac since the end of last year, and it doesn't seem to have done him any good, because in his household, he's not the one who sees himself as the person in need of healing and comfort - that privilege goes to his wife, who has been doing a lot of emotional manipulation to get him to stay (including manipulative actions).

But I don't see how much of what you wrote (including the above) relates to the symbol at all. Am I missing something? Is he the Indian girl? Am I? I'm afraid I am having trouble following you when it comes to the symbol! (though as general human advice, it's very good ;))


I'm going to be as honest as I can here. I am forty years old, and I have had several relationships in my life. I've been in love more than once. But I've never felt this way for anyone. There is a qualitative difference that I could not have described if I'd not lived it. I've loved more urgently, but not been in such a plentiful, abundant, mutually enriching love before. This is also the first time I've had the urge to put down roots with someone else, and create a home with him in a stable manner. I have also known some wonderful men, and have suffered break-ups before, and moved on. With the exception of my university boyfriend, whom it took me two years to get over, I had no trouble giving up and moving on, past the initial period of grieving. Again, this time is different. All my quiet inner voices - my guides - are telling me not to give up on him, but work with the situation, patiently, without immediate expectations - during those moments that I am discouraged and angry, and ready to throw everything over and walk away.

Is that also what you are saying, Tink?


You are also quite right about him. He's very much like that.
 

tink27

Hi Fudugazi,

Fudugazi said:
But I don't see how much of what you wrote (including the above) relates to the symbol at all. Am I missing something? Is he the Indian girl? Am I? I'm afraid I am having trouble following you when it comes to the symbol! (though as general human advice, it's very good )

When I wrote this, I was visualizing the young indian girl approaching her people and the different emotions arising from the tribe. Emotions can blindfold us from seeing our truth. But when we allow our selves to stay centered , we begin to see certain dynamics played out through others, which could be to our benefit. It is through others (family, close friends), we can sometimes see our truth. This was how I was interpreting this symbol at this particular moment in time. It may well not pertain to it at all, but it was what I was intuitively given and propelled to write. It could be you are the indian girl (spirit, heart) and the tribe, your many mixed emotions and feelings.

All my quiet inner voices - my guides - are telling me not to give up on him, but work with the situation, patiently, without immediate expectations - during those moments that I am discouraged and angry, and ready to throw everything over and walk away.

If the tribe were not to accept this college boyfriend, would the indian girl throw their love away? She knows there will be some in the tribe that will not welcome this man aboard. If there is any confusion in her heart, the tribe is going to amplify them. Any insecurities she may feel about this relationship will be brought out into the open. Is anything that they say or reveal also what's been on her mind? Only she knows deep within what she wants. But sometimes we can spin out of that center in total confusion. That's when those we feel close to can reveal what we truly feel inside.

There still are many tribes around the world that determine and control a girl's fate as to whom she will marry. This indian girl has turned against this old age tradition and followed her heart. But this is also a place she calls home. She's looking and longing to balance the mind and the heart.

I'm still very new at the Sabians....perhaps others can also offer you another perspective on this.

tink :love:
 

Sophie

Thanks for the explanation, Tink :). I like the idea of my guides being my tribe ;).


Still, for me, that symbols speaks clearly of him and his tribe, since it is the tribe and his loyalty to the tribe that separated us, because the tribe could not accept me, and he felt the pull in both directions - until he dropped the easiest, me, because he feels dropping his clan is too difficult, or at least, those closest to him. So he's the Indian girl, and I'm the college boyfriend in that scenario. Since this is a future - predictive - reading (not a reading for the present) to help me take a decision, I think it points to the situation arising again. And this time, he'll find a bridge.

But a lot has to happen before that. I drew another symbol asking what would happen between him and me before he could find that bridge between me and his tribe.

TAURUS 28
A WOMAN IN MIDDLE LIFE STANDS IN RAPT SUDDEN REALIZATION OF FORGOTTEN CHARMS, IN UNEXPECTED RECOVERY OF ROMANCE

Which seems to confirm my initial instinct about the first symbol. The caution draws us back to social expectation, but together, these are rather hopeful symbols.

Lastly I want to know what to do. I know I can't just hang about in suspense, it's unhealthy. I'm letting him go - or trying to - with love and peace. What do the symbols advise I do?

LEO 2
AN EPIDEMIC OF MUMPS

Which seems to say - calm down any feeling of hysteria. Lynda writes this : There needs to be a separation or isolation to halt the spread of infection and then a time spent in recovery.

At the moment there is a great deal of miscommunication between us, and things are getting out of hand in a cycle of misunderstanding. I need to take a break to stop the spread of the miscommunication disease. I also think it's about my own feelings of discouragement and confusion running about crazily inside me, making me feel ill. I need a quarantine.
 

MCsea

HUGS Fudugazi

(((((Fudugazi)))))

I just found this post, and feel SO much - I am SO glad you pulled a couple omore sabian symbols as it was my first instinct to post..
and I am glad you did.

I love how Tink interpreted Cancer 28 :)

and that you have such strong spirit support !


I too pulled a card - what advice can I offer to Fudugazi in regard to this challenging relationship - From Lynda Hills site -

ARIES 3
A CAMEO SHOWS THE PROFILE OF A MAN THAT SUGGESTS THE OUTLINE OF HIS COUNTRY
There is a growing, objective awareness of how you, or others, fit into the larger picture. You may find you have a more important role than you previously thought. Imprinting your mark, become an example of your tradition and culture. However, try not to become too identified with externals or seeking recognition from the people around you.
Observing one's limitations. Living a transpersonal life. Allegiances with creed, religion, race or country. Nationhood, brotherhood, one's country.

To me it indicates you are on the right track with the mumps symbol - stand back and look at the BIG picture, take YOUR OWN power and make it real and strong..
What I say in Crystal Astrology about this symbol -
Aries 3
Marc Edmund Jones Key Word: Exploitation
Crystal Element: Black Onyx
Onyx helps with the challenges in life, eliminating excess and releasing unnecessary energies.
Message Face-to-face contact enhances clarity, empathy, comprehension and understanding.
Affirmation: I cooperate with people face-to-face.

If you dont mind Ill just go and look up what I said about Cancer 28 too..

MARINA
 

MCsea

Cancer 28
Numerology: 118
Sabian Symbol: A modern Pocahontas
Marc Edmund Jones Key Word: Compatibility
Crystal Element: Scapolite
Expression: Scapolite is a translucent, metamorphic gemstone. Scapolite highlights individual and collective soul purpose, increases willpower, and inspires activity.
Message: Understand and trust life-path developments.
You are resourceful and determined; you lead in a pioneering way.
Affirmation: I am strong, kind, original and intense.


WELL its very interesting the key word is compatibility.. and very strongly indicates the 'karmic' aspects of this relationships - what past lives have you had (have your read 'many lives many masters' by chance??)



HUGS

Marina
 

MCsea

Another thought is have you visited the free site
www.crystalastrology.com
and put both of your birth details in to SEE if there are any hints in the natal astrology? even with a rough time of birth from HIM you may see a MARS VENUS SUN sort of message?

You look at your list and at his list and see how each sybmol - crystal speaks to eachother..

MARINA
 

Sophie

Thanks, Marina :)

I know his birth chart back to front ;). And we are very compatible, with strong indication of past-life connections, and some interesting tensions (I believe it's a good thing) - all of this is actually played out in real life. His Venus and mine are trine, his Mars conjuncts my Venus very closely (and in Aries, too!!!), my Moon and his Venus are conjunct in the 7th House (and conjunct his Descendant), our Rising signs are conjunct, our moons are sextile (which also mean my moon is sextile his mercury), our Jupiters are conjunct in Cancer; our Saturns are trine, our North Nodes are trine in Taurus and Capricorn, my Ascendant trines his Sun very closely; however my Sun/Mercury and his Venus are square (not a close square, but square all the same); his Ascendant squares my Sun; my Moon opposes his Ascendant (well, since it conjuncts his Descendant!); and our Mars are a not very close but still uncomfortable quincux (it takes only one of us to be angry to make the other foam at the mouth!). And given my Mars is a powerful Scorpio, I can be the bitch from hell when I am angry }). I am still studying all this. There are other less obvious aspects that have something to say, and I am a neophyte astrologer.

I have in fact had some insight in trance about past life matters between us in the past month - some of which were a real surprise (I was in fact exploring a totally different past life issue, which I hadn't thought connected to him at all, and stumbled onto something major between him, me, and his wife). Some healing was needed there, and is still needed.

Funny you should mention that website - I was looking it up, and both our birth symbols, only yesterday!

Interesting about the country symbol....I am living in his country (he is working in another country), and this is giving me a lot of insight into him and us, and making him see me differently too. It is also a real change for me, and I can feel myself changing from a relatively footloose person without roots to someone who wants to settle and put down roots. I love it here.

Things have progressed since I wrote my first few posts. After my time of "quarantine", he and I are back in touch and having some very productive exchanges. As I anticipated, he is making noises about seeing me again. I have made a few things clear - though I love him unconditionally, I can't have an unconditional relationship with him (there is a difference) - that is, I've told him I'd not see him again unless he were free. He's struggling through quite a few "life issues", the most important being his own transformation and growth, which is a challenge to him, and his relationship to his "tribe" and how I fit in or not.

Our last conversations have been very honest and open, and we are both slowly beginning to understand ourselves, the other, and our relationship. But there's a way to go...


...and to Marina and Tink both: I am indeed lucky to have a good spirit team. They are being good coaches, and one of the things they are trying to teach me is to rely on my own inner voice more, and less on theirs. But they are always there, as advisors, and to console me when I need them. In additionl, I have one who is a healing teacher.
 

MCsea

Fudugazi said:
Our last conversations have been very honest and open, and we are both slowly beginning to understand ourselves, the other, and our relationship. But there's a way to go...


You deserve a good partner - an honest open loving relationship this I wish for you

blessings

MARINA