Read a marseille with the Intuition ...

TheOld

hello hello everybody,

I pick up my marseille this morning (long time no use) and i read a lot on the forum about it's interpretation, i found a couples of things about intuitive reading but not a lot, by example:

For Marteau, leaves generally represent potential of forces, expansions of energy, or reservoirs of energy.
A flower can symbolize fertility ('fecondité harmonique') or richness ('richesse animique').
presence/absence of a single vertical element.


so someone know other way/tricks to kick up intuition with the marseille ?

thanks thanks thanks :)
TheOld
 

jmd

I would suggest to allow the imagination to consider various ways a depiction can be seen.

For example, take the six Coins: if you 'join' the centre of each coin, one of the images that results is of an octahedron (ie, a four-sided pyramid over an upside down one). This can also be seen into the card without 'joining' those lines, enabling a three dimensional insight into the relation the implements make.

Once such is made with one card, other imagery becomes easier (at least from my point of view) to see in other depictions.
 

Sophie

With the figure cards (Majors and Honours), I tend to look at their positions relative to each other, and have them interact. If you seem them in one continuous "film", they come alive and start speaking to each other, ignoring each other, setting each other off, etc. It's an imaginative exercise that gets my intuition going - so I can look at L'Hermite and L'Impératrice, and say - "your husband is away a lot on his own and you have to hold the fort?" or some such.

With the Minors - I love the scrying method - just seeing shapes, whether geometrical, as JMD described, or actual figures, animals, objects. It sparks off something, and together with whatever I know of the card, will bring me an intuitive idea for that specific reading.

Quite often, a detail in a card will spark something off in me - intuitively - and I'll go with that. For instance, in a reading I did a while ago with the Dodal deck, I was struck by the fake breasts in Temperance. I'd seen them hundreds of times before, of course, but they suddenly seemed relevant for that reading, so I went with that feeling, and they formed the core of my reading of that card, integrated with what I know of Temperance as an arcanum. This will happen with a minor too - a flower, the curve of a leaf, or the way a sword looks will suddenly seem relevant to me, for that reading, and I go with that.
 

Moonbow

The Marseilles is beautiful for using intuition and imagination and often it's not until you are in a reading situation that this happens, so giving someone tricks and tips is a little difficult. To let your imagination flow it is sometimes necessary to focus purely on the picture, and dismiss what the element may generally mean to you, or the number, or anything else which is immediately obvious. For intuition there is less concentration involved and it's more a spontaneous thought but with an urgent sense that you are right.

For example, look at the flowers and the stage of growth they are in, look at the amount of foliage... or lack of it, the order or pattern that the coins or cups represent and the shapes they form. Sometimes the people cards look as though they are in conversation (as Fudugazi also said), note their expressions . Kris Hadar mentions the way they face, to the future or the past... so does this mean they are anxious for example, or perhaps they are reminiscing.

Most of the enjoyment that I get from my cards are just in studying the depiction, comparing them with other Marseilles and in trying to look beyond the obvious.
 

EnriqueEnriquez

TdM is a visual language.

Others may find this controversial, but I think there are no meanings to learn, only meanings to "get" and those vary in each reading, and through the years, depending on your level of awareness as human being. The arcana are taken by the meaning you project in them in the spur of the moment. The cards aren't the ones who has to be full of meaning, you are.

At some point, for the sake of completeness, you could learn all you can about how other people along history filled the cards with meanings, but those impositions are only useful info, not necessarily the way to work with the cards. The way I see it is very simple: when you love someone, you want to know everything about that person: what does she eats, favorite color, favorite song, favorite movie, etc... Tarot is no different. If you “love” Tarot, at some point you will want to read all you can about the cards, even if your intuitive work is going well. Do it. That will certainly enrich your understanding of the cards.

But these books, and ideas, are like a waiter in a romantic dinner: nice to have it handy, as long as he doesn’t interfere in the conversation.

As I said in another thread, I have been re-reading Italo Calvino’s book, "The Castle of Crossed Destinies". For me the book is a great example of how to take the cards intuitively and “detect” meaning in them.

Here are a couple of quotes from Calvino’s experience writing this book, that I find perfect examples of how to work with the cards:

"But I cannot say that my work made use of the methodological contribution of all these investigation. From them I only took the idea of the meaning of each individual card depending on the place that card occupies in the succession of cards preceding it, or following it : from that idea I have moved myself freely, following the inner exigences of my text.

Regarding the vast bibliography about cartomancy and the symbolic interpretation of Tarots, even tough, as it is logical, I took the time to learn about it, I don't think it has any deep influence on my work. I have focused on looking at Tarots with attention, looking as if not knowing what they were, and on extracting from them suggestions and associations, this is, to interpret them based on an imaginary iconology."

Calvino is a great example of how any person, just by looking at the card, can get messages from them. (Example: In one story the page of coins is a guy flipping a coin. In another story, the same page of coins is Hamlet looking at the skull). "Learning" in this case doesn't means accumulating more meanings, but getting used with this process until longer, subtler, and deeper messages are obtained. That simply takes practice. And time.

And the idea of “practice” takes me to my next point:

I can only see the Marseilles as a tool, or a bridge, towards an understanding of the universe. But the bridge isn't the arrival point.

Some more quotes, this time from “Meditations on Tarot”, could help me clarify my feelings:

"Now, it is the arcana which stimulate us and at the same time guide us in the art of learning. In this sense, the Major Arcana of the Tarot are a complete, entire, invaluable school of meditation, study, and spiritual effort -a masterly school in the art of learning."

I can relate with this quote in the sense that, at a personal level, I understand the TdM as a learning tool, whose ultimate goal is to understand life, and human condition, at which point we can leave the cards behind. That is what is defined as “true divination” and it isn’t a super-power, but a creative understanding of the world. In that sense TdM is a school of spiritual development. I say "at a personal level", because I do think that when readings for others, these other may need the cards, even if we don't.

Here is another quote from “Meditations...” I found appealing:

"...the major Arcana of the tarot are authentic symbols, i.e. they are "magic, mental, psychic, and moral operations" awakening new notions, ideas, sentiments and aspirations, which means to say that they require an activity more profound than that of study and intellectual explanation. It is therefore in a state of deep contemplation that they should be approached."

and:

"The major Arcana of the tarot are authentic symbols. They conceal and reveal they sense at one and the same time according to the depth of meditation."

and:

"An arcanum is a "ferment" or "enzyme", whose presence stimulates the spiritual and the psychic life of man."

Now, the key IMO, to understand the minor arcana, is to see them as we see the majors. There is no real difference, only an apparent difference. Thy are there to be seen. All the above quotes apply to the minors as well. There are, or course, certain coordinates: we have four suits representing four different principles; and a numerological frame. There are several theories and points of view about this. I personally work under the premise of TdM being a visual language that is self-contained and self-sufficient, therefore I try not to impose any other system on the cards. For that reason, I don’t use numerology for the minors. Instead of that, I see each number from 1 to 10 as “degrees of fulfillment” of the principle represented by the specific suit. This way, a glance at the cards gives me a “diagnose” of what is going on with the person, that I enrich with the messages that the details on the cards dictate me in the spur of the moment.

I hope its helps,

Best,

EE
 

TheOld

EnriqueEnriquez said:
I see each number from 1 to 10 as “degrees of fulfillment” of the principle represented by the specific suit. This way, a glance at the cards gives me a “diagnose” of what is going on with the person, that I enrich with the messages that the details on the cards dictate me in the spur of the moment.

I hope its helps,

Oh you just make my day :)
it help a lot and it's a verry verry interesting view, i will definitively put that in practice.
thanks a lot.

Omeada
 

Paul

I remember when I was a teenager, reading my library copy of "Castle of Crossed Destinies" . I was hooked. Thanks for reminding me of this delicious book...on to Amazon!
 

ZenMusic

these are great recommendations... noticing the relationships between the characters in their positions in the spread is very useful.. stories arise

>"With the Minors - just seeing shapes. ... sparks off something, and together with whatever I know of the card, will bring me an intuitive idea for that specific reading."

YES, this resonates well with my experience..

also.. after you look it over... stop... relax into the reading... allow the energy of the history (hundreds of years of Tarot) seep into your mind, allow the images to come to life with that energy.. and with the energy of the Universe that is divining before/thru you

the real insight (in any reading) for me, is always the departure from how i've always seen the particular card in the past... in this reading.. it emerges as something different or of a different energy than any other reading in the past..

...one or two cards in each reading come to life like that for me.. and become the pivot/perspective for all the others, quite marvelous to experience...
 

Umbrae

Great stuff EnriqueEnriquez…

I think our different life experiences help trigger different internal mechanisms to get to our ‘meanings’.

I remember looking at the Eight of Denars and thought of the Arc de Triomphe…which you can pass through (to get to the nine), but also…it is something that you actively build!

Can’t see it? It’s the view looking down at the four columns that make up the two side supports…
 

EnriqueEnriquez

Umbrae said:
I remember looking at the Eight of Denars and thought of the Arc de Triomphe…which you can pass through (to get to the nine), but also…it is something that you actively build!

Can’t see it? It’s the view looking down at the four columns that make up the two side supports…

Nice!

I can see the columns, giving proper structure to the flow of “traffic.”

Thanks for that.

EE