History of the Piatnik Zigeuner deck

I was just wondering if anyone has any information about the history of the Gipsy fortune telling cards from Piatnik, called Zigneuner Wahrsagekarten. If you aren't sure which deck I am talking about, here is a link to a Hungarian website that has all 36 cards for your viewing. http://azigazijezus.hu/sandrajana/page.php?4
Also if you pick one card, it will show a description. (in Hungarian)

To the best of my knowledge these card did not really go into full color production until the late 1970's or become readily available.

I know that they have been passed down from generation to generation and were not an easy deck to get. Someone did publish them and must have known something of their history other than the fact that they were used and held in "top secret" among the supposed "gipsy people" of yesteryear.

Also I know that they have lineage to the Austro Hungarian empire.

Thanks

In the late 19th century, system of card reading arose in Europe, using unnumbered emblematic cards. Although many of the images in these decks derive from Lenormand style decks, the cards are not set-numbered and they do not contain insets of playing cards. They generally come in packs of 36, 48, or 52 cards. Although They are sometimes sold under names like "Gipsy Cards," or "Cartomancy Cards." Despite the name "Gipsy" in the title, these Oracle Cards should not be confused with the Lenormand style 52-card Gypsy Witch Fortune Telling Playing Cards
In these "Cartomancy" or "Oracle Card" decks, the cards are not numbered or ordered in any way. They do not contain inset the pip or court cards from a regular deck of playing cards, nor do they include a special trump suit like Tarot cards. However, they still feature many of the images that were devised by Lenormand and her successors -- figures such as the Widower, the Letter, the House, and the Thief. The images on these cards are both allegorical and direct: Hope is a woman with an anchor, Love is enacted by Cupid, Malady shows a woman sick in bed, and Falseness is still the Fox of Lenormand's devising.
Unnumbered decks of this type are without a doubt among the most beautifully illustrated of all the non-Tarot cards used for fortune telling. Many of them seem to have originated in Austria. The oldest of the unnumbered Austrian "Cartomancy" sets contain 32 cards, like the original Lenormand Euchre decks, but as time went on, more cards were added to cover more of life's conditions, so there are decks with 32, 36, and 52 cards.
So as you can see although the cards you show from Piatnik as Gipsy cards are not Lenormand type they seem to have derived from that system. It is my understanding that Gypsy cards were a standard playing card pack(Euchre) reduced to the cards that are shown as excerpts on the Lenormand decks. So true Gypsy cards were utilised by Madame Lenormand were most likely Euchre packs that were around at the time Napolean Bonoparte. I believe the first time these type you ask about were published around 1850.
So to be brief you have ordinary pip playing cards used for Whist and Euchre and by the Rom and along comes someone like Madame Lenormand who uses images as mnemonic prompts, knows the Gypsy system, becomes famous as a Sibyl.... and there you go. Hope this was of some help- though it isnot those particular cards- but there were many like them at that time. ~Rosanne

Just a thought, why not contact Piatnik & Sohne the company at
info@piatnik.com They are likely to have the facts. ~Rosanne

Zigeuner

Rosanne said:

Just a thought, why not contact Piatnik & Sohne the company at
info@piatnik.com They are likely to have the facts. ~Rosanne

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Thanks Rosanne for your information. I tried contacting Piatnik half a dozen times already and have not received a reply. I wrote my letter in English and also in google translated it in German (and we know how that might have looked, ha-ha).
My "old" aunt sent me my first Zigeuner deck well over 20 years ago, it is not in color and done on low grade card stock. I had to glue the cards onto another blank deck of cards to protect them. They did not come in a box, just wrapped in a cloth which makes me think that she must have hussled or bartered with a local card reader to get them. It wouldn't surprise me because the small village she lives in is smack in the middle of what was the called Austro-Hungarian empire. Reading cards & coffee grounds etc are common and part of the lifestyle in Eastern Europe especially in the earlier years.
I became hooked so to speak on reading cards when I was a teenager through an experience I had (shhhhh, won't mention the year) way back when.
I will continue to search the European sites - I feel that it is a "guarded secret" to this day.

Gypsies have always used standard playing card decks. Do not believe anyone who claim they had "special cards", but it is true that they had their own methods on card reading.

Seaqueen said:

I will continue to search the European sites - I feel that it is a "guarded secret" to this day.

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How exciting to have a link to family use! Piatnik was and is today from the area of your elderly aunt, and a famous card manufacturer then and today. Of course the World War changed that boundary. Piatnik do not sell to the public- only to agents who sell their decks. For instance a Casino could not buy direct- nor you and I. I am sorry they have not answered you. As to the 'guarded secret' it might have been once- but no longer. The way these cards were read is now, fairly commonplace- especially since Madame LeNormand in the 1800's. I would imagine those cards were part of a usual run in black and white, which was usual for these types of cards. Also, of course how your Aunt read them was her secret in particular. You could contact someone like Andy's playing Card site by email and ask for any information http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cardpgal.htm
Good luck! ~Rosanne

MatPoint said:

Gypsies have always used standard playing card decks. Do not believe anyone who claim they had "special cards", but it is true that they had their own methods on card reading.

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That may very well be true that Gipsies used standard cards as did Mlle Lenormand but I think that special cards were born from the meanings they gave the cards. Sketching simple images and keywords on them was common.

.....continued in Rosanne's reply post

Rosanne said:

You could contact someone like Andy's playing Card site by email and ask for any information http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cardpgal.htm
Good luck! ~Rosanne

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Thanks for the link Rosanne. Yes with the popularity of the Lenormand most of the "guarded secrets" are available to the public as far as her style of cards go. Those cards will be the "buzz" for a few years and then be replaced by other modes of divination. It's always like that- the retro mentality.

The Zigeuner deck is self explanatory as are many other oracle cards.

Even young children get impressions from images and would come up accurate keywords based on the pictures. The key to it all is the blending and telling the story of the cards.

As "Matpoint" mentioned Gipsies used playing cards but Gipsies existed way before playing cards did - and they had their own special cards (in my humble opinion)

Oh I see what you mean SeaQueen! Yes I have seen some individual hand drawn cards decks in collections. In fact, there is a local deck in the tiny town museum, here in New Zealand. It does make me laugh when I recall it has on its label 'Life in the colonies postcards' No one has realized what it is. I am not sure whether to inform the amateur curators or not. I often joke that the Phoenicean sailors had clay tablet Tarot . It is not beyond the realm of possibility that gypsy cards of pasteboard would have been made. You are saying, that they would have been considered valuable to the family and passed down the generations. It would be most interesting to come across a deck like that. I wish you the best of luck in your quest for information. I have found a deck on the World of playing cards site that was made in 1507. It was a teaching tool and in black and white drawings, quite lovely I think. I would love to be able to get a reproduction, and of some of those complete Euchre decks from Germany. The illustrations are wonderful. In imagination, they leave modern decks for dead. That was 500 years ago! Another thing I found out that has made me laugh- The Lenormand type French Cartomancy deck that I have, is a reprint of Cigarette cards, that were collected avidly at the time. Here I was thinking that it was a Lenormand commonly used in France hehe. Commercial interest instead of esoteric ones. ~Rosanne

Rosanne said:

Another thing I found out that has made me laugh- The Lenormand type French Cartomancy deck that I have, is a reprint of Cigarette cards, that were collected avidly at the time. Here I was thinking that it was a Lenormand commonly used in France hehe. Commercial interest instead of esoteric ones. ~Rosanne

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Ha-ha that is funny. I stumbled on a bunch of Hungarian sites that had a bit of information, but enough for a flea. Everyone is saying the same thing. Alas, maybe it is best that the origins remain a bit of an allure- it is more fun that way. Too much exploitation spoils a good mystery. From Roman empire to Austo-Hungarian empire, many were gipsies at heart anyways.


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