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SwordsQueen 
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Can the 4 of swords be negative


I recently did a relationship reading in which the 4 of swords came up as what challenges the relationship/Obstacle.

Now here is where I get a little confused ... I, myself, have always regarded the 4 of swords as a benign card. It's just that card that comes up when you have been working to hard, thinking about something too much, etc., and you simply need a break.

In regards to how it would apply to a relationship - I would tend to see it as positive. You just need some time out to think about things.

I guess, it follows, that because I have this interpretation, I am unable to interpret its role as an obstacle. Could it mean that one of us is taking a time-out, but if taken too long, that will hinder the progress of our relationship.

Sorry to ramble, but do I make any sense?
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Old 11-06-2007 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #1
starchild 
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the four of swords to me is a card of resting to recouperate and to think. recouperate from what? we can only recouperate from something that has happened. so i always see this card about recouperating from something past. in a sence the whole issue of this card gets beared down to burrying the past and coming to terms with events or exepting them.
so in a relashionship spread i would say that a new start is needed. to bury the past. get over it. take all the time thats needed but get over past events.

the image on the raider waite deck of the man resting on top of a coffin. to me shows the need to take time to rest as something needs to be buried.
and in the ansestral path deck that i use mostly. i see a japonesse women burying her sword. (im not sure if that was what i was ment to see in this image, but its what i do see).

i wouldnt see this card as either possitive or negative. if we are able to move on from our past and make a fresh start that may be a possitive. if we are unable to do so and constantly dwell on past issues then it can lead to a negative.

hope i made some sence to you.
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sharpchick 
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Negatively aspected, it could mean any one of a number of things, including:

The honeymoon is over. . . the Seeker is in forced isolation. . . more recovery, contemplation, or recuperation is needed. . . .there is illness. . .the Seeker is forced into bitter solitude, accompanied by remorse or regret.



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Wonderwoman 
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Deep Contemplation


The way i see the 4 of swords is that either the querent or the other person in the relationship is giving this a lot of thought. He/she is really thinking about this person/relationship and perhaps even taking this thoughts into their dreams (hence the bed, coffin). Not negative at all, I would think that in order to make a good/sound decision one has to contemplate it from different angles and this is not a bad thing.
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Thirteen 
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Depression?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsQueen
I recently did a relationship reading in which the 4 of swords came up as what challenges the relationship/Obstacle.
The first thing that popped to my mind is depression. If one of you is depressed, then there's a very strong challenge to the relationship (speak from experience here, from both sides). One of you isn't moving, is sitting in the dark, is lost in his/her head; it's not that he/she isn't trying to recover, but both sides are alone.

The person who is depressed is going to feel isolated. And the one who isn't is going to feel as if their partner is gone...he/she can reach them, can't help them. All he/she can do is watch them sit in the dark trying to deal with their mental anguish.

It's a tough obstacle. I know many couples that have broken up either because one of them couldn't handle their partner's depression, or the depressed person felt that their partner didn't take their mental/emotional pain seriously.
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Old 11-06-2007 Limited time only: Chat live with a Tarot reader now and get 50% off!     Top   #5
Papageno 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirteen
The first thing that popped to my mind is depression. If one of you is depressed, then there's a very strong challenge to the relationship (speak from experience here, from both sides). One of you isn't moving, is sitting in the dark, is lost in his/her head; it's not that he/she isn't trying to recover, but both sides are alone.
but doesn't the 4 indicate strength? a safe house kind of situation where one can find respite. I would have thought the 9 of swords would be more appropriate to indicate depression/mental anguish/dysfunction.

isolation, yes, but in the sense of needing to remove oneself to gain rest and perspective. recovery.
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starrystarrynight 
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Well, here is a thought. Think about the progression from the Three of Swords to the Four. If you have "gotten to" the Four, where did this need for rest and recuperation come from?

It could be physical illness, or being a sword, like Thirteen said, it could be mental.

Whatever is the basis of the need for this recovery is perhaps the deeper issue here which could, therefore, be the negative or challenge to the relationship. So, to me, it says that the challenge could still be to make it over the hump of recovering from the deeper issue.



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Papageno 
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yes, you're right of course. my question wasn't well thought out at all. pretty stupid actually. I only just realized it myself after the fact.
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Thirteen 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papageno
yes, you're right of course. my question wasn't well thought out at all. pretty stupid actually. I only just realized it myself after the fact.
Not stupid at all. The difference I see is that 9/Swords is about a *situation* a very real one, that has the person in a mental quandry. Worrying, fretting, not sleeping.

In 4/Swords, the person, as Starry points out, is temporarily ill. Depression does not have to have any cause at all. It can hit a person out of the blue. And they need to find a way to cope and recover from it. And I think Starry is very right that when someone is recovering from something, and needs that time alone, it can be a real challenge to a relationship.

If the one you love says to you, "I need to be alone for a while to get better..." or you say it to the one you love...well, that can be hard to hear. It's hard for a person to say it and tell their lover, "You can't help me, and I can't have you around..." and it's hard for someone to hear that. To feel unwanted, unnecessary, unable to do anything. To feel that they're going to be in the way, even, of the person recovering.

I could easily see either misunderstandings or hurt feelings about it.
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Tzabaoth 
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It depends on which deck I use. From studying the rider waite deck, I've always seen it as seclusion, a time of rest, meditation, contemplation, careful planning, and a time of inner peace and separation in order to plan things out and make decisions.

To an extent I think it could even represent the practice of asceticism to a degree. It's time to get rid of the distractions of the modern world, or just ignore them for a while and get in touch with yourself and find your center. I almost see this card as a mini hermit card.

Perhaps as an obstacle it represents the occasional need for alone time between the two. Many people, when dating, seem to get this hive perception about their relationship and lose their own sense of identity. Maybe a weekend apart or even longer is necessary because even if you love someone, too much exposure to them can make you sick of them. There is a reason for the saying "Absence makes the heart fonder."

It could also represent an excessive eagerness to appease each other. Not wanting to make waves, they are walking on eggshells in order to not upset each other. If even the most trivial thing tilts the balance and upsets the peace, they might find themselves flung into the heart break of the three of words or the bitter confrontation of the five.

If this is a new or young relationship we're talking about maybe they are so caught up in the whole new relationship feeling where everything is blissful and they are so in love that they fail to realize that eventual there will be a bump in the road and soon they might find themselves in their first fight and completely unprepared to handle it.
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