Fate vs Free Will

I'm puzzled by something.

For thousands of years, so we are told, medicine men, shamans, tribal spiritual elders etc were chosen by the spirits to work in that way. Through severe illness, epilepsy, catasrophy in life, childhood trauma etc they were pointed out as THE ONE for the spiritual job.

Many belief systems hold that free will is the foundation upon which our life here on earth is based. We can be pointed in the right direction through coincidences, dreams, intuition and life events but the decision as to how we live our lives is our own choice and thats part of the big overall plan.

OK . . . so . . . . how can both be true?

Many a would be Shaman decided to go against the pointing fingers of the free-will of the spirits.

VERY interesting topic.

Both sides can be true, and at the same time.

Perhaps we're given a path(s), but can chose a different road(s) to take along the way (free will).

Perhaps being born equal means that we're all born with a clean slate of actions and it's up to us to chose to live life with respect to others?

Maybe out past lives effect us, but we have the free will to make the changes to grow?

Baccus93 said:

Many a would be Shaman decided to go against the pointing fingers of the free-will of the spirits.

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Do you mean that a 'would be' shaman is one who chooses to follow that path or someone who was seemingly chosen by the spirits? Also, so you mean that they did or didn't follow a shamanic path? Sorry its VERY hot here today and my brain has clearly melted . . . I'm not sure what you mean.

I don't think they are incompatible, because I don't think either are absolutes.

The shaman is chosen, true. But he can refuse the call. It is his free will to do so: then he has to deal with the consequences of refusal (which can range from physical to mental illness to nightmares, to guilt, etc.)

If you take the Biblical story that introduced the idea of free will in the Judeo-Christian culture - Adam and Eve and the fruit of the tree - you have the same idea. Adam and Eve were told not to eat of that fruit. But God didn't remove their free will. They were created free, including free to disobey their creator. They chose to do so, and had to deal with the consequences (they were kicked out of Eden). But at no time did God remove that free will. He just said: whatever you choose to do will have consequences.

It's a good parable for our own lives. We might refuse fate at any time. Let's say we meet someone who can bring us a wonderful opportunity in business, through a fated meeting. We don't HAVE to take that opportunity - but if we don't, we deal with the consequences of blowing it (this could mean loss of market share, or being stuck in a rut, etc.)

Milfoil said:

Do you mean that a 'would be' shaman is one who chooses to follow that path or someone who was seemingly chosen by the spirits? Also, so you mean that they did or didn't follow a shamanic path? Sorry its VERY hot here today and my brain has clearly melted . . . I'm not sure what you mean.

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I actually meant it in any way you wanted to read it. Going against the pointing fingers... did I mean they chose to walk toward the spirit, or away from the direction the spirit pointed? Depends, was the spirit pointing a way, or toward the person? lol. I'm being tricky.

The shaman chooses to accept or not accept the call. That's the free will. The shaman could not choose the call any more so than Ernest Hemingway's cats could have chosen how many toes they were born with - but they can choose to live or die in any manner they see fit within the confines of the island they were born on.

Thanks

Seems a rather odd way to promote or offer free will . . . with a price tag.

I read of many instances where a Shaman has refused the call only to be sent insane or die! Not much of a choice really. Free will seems to be, therefore, on a 'my way or the highway' type rule.

Thats what makes me wonder.

Free Will, choice, is a double-edged sword. The True Magician seems to know this.

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Milfoil said:

Not much of a choice really. Free will seems to be, therefore, on a 'my way or the highway' type rule.

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And yet many (not only would-be shamans) do take the highway... So it is freedom. It might appear unhappy to an outsider - like the choice someone might make to stay in an abusive relationship - yet it is a choice. No-one says freedom is easy or choices are equal. Simply that we have them. Even unhappy choices have payoffs (the person in an abusive relationship might not work, and might be afraid of being alone). Some people choose slavery over freedom.