[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by dangerdork

I was playing around with the idea of doing readings from this perspective, and came up with the following:

Take the Majors only, pull the Fool, and turn it facing the other direction from the rest of the cards (i.e. so when they are dealt out face down, the Fool will be face up.)

Have the Querent shuffle thoroughly. Deal seven cards face down from the top of the pack and place them on the bottom (this represents one "Path Cycle" and allows for a more random chance that the Fool will fall on top).

Now lay out the cards, FACE DOWN, in the grid:

xx - xx - 03 - 06 - 09 - 12 - 15 - 18 - 21 (The Hidden Path)
00 - xx - 02 - 05 - 08 - 11 - 14 - 17 - 20 (The Inner Path)
xx - xx - 01 - 04 - 07 - 10 - 13 - 16 - 19 (The Outer Path)

If dangerdork doesn't come back to us soon, I'm threatening right here in front of everyone reading this thread that I'm going to steal his thunder and post all the various spreads he's come up with in this thread!

I've spent a good part of this weekend test-driving this spread. At least for me, it works! If anyone else has given it a test-drive, please post. I don't believe anyone else has said that they've done so.

Since this isn't the Spreads forum, I won't discuss the cards or spread in any great detail (which is why I'm threatening to steal dangerdork's thunder so I can do so), but some interesting things came up for me.

• I didn't get a whole lot out of the spread just reading the cards in the particular path and station they fell in. I got a lot more out of it when I looked at the card that fell and the particular path and station and the home card of that particular path and station.
• One card fell in its home path and station
• Three cards fell in their home path
• Two cards swapped places
• I didn't ask a question, but by the second or third card, I knew what the spread was telling me about
• I have an idea about the unused cards in the spread, but I'll have to save that for when the spread gets posted to the Spreads forum

Back to re-reading the thread.

Rodney

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by dangerdork

I wonder how the signs of the Zodiac correspond, for instance? At the origins of the tarot and on back into antiquity, we have the traditional Seven Planets. MMMMMMMM, seven. yum. Wonder how that works out?

With mixed results, I'm afraid.

The astrological signs themselves line up in order although not consecutively:
4 - Emperor - Aries
5 - Hierophant - Taurus
6 - Lovers - Gemini
7 - Cancer - Chariot
8 - Strength - Leo
9 - Hermit - Virgo
11 - Justice - Libra
13 - Death - Scorpio
14 - Temperance - Sagittarius
15 - Devil - Capricorn
17 - Star - Aquarius
18 - Moon - Pisces

Barring the Fool, which I don't consider to be part of the Paths, the first 9 cards lined up nicely though. Three planetary rulers then three signs followed by three more signs. Then the whole thing pretty much fell apart. But if the associations for Justice and the Tower were switched, it would've been sweet! There would be 3 rulers followed by 6 signs followed by 3 rulers followed by 6 signs and finished off with 3 rulers. That would've been the kind of symmetry that makes my anal-retentive heart sing! As it stands, only the Hidden Path lines up that nicely, with ruler, 2 signs, ruler, 2 signs, ruler.

The planetary rulers don't appear in the order of the planets. Only two of the rulers (Hanged Man/Neptune and World/Saturn) appear in the same path as the signs they rule (the Moon and the Devil, respectively, which are also part of the Hidden Path). None of the rulers appear in the same station as the sign they rule.

I don't know enough about Astrology to know if there's some greater significance to the arrangement of the planets and signs, so I'll list them all here in case anyone else knows:

0 - Fool - Uranus (rules Aquarius)
1 - Magician - Mercury (rules Gemini and Virgo)
2 - High Priestess - Moon (rules Cancer)
3 - Empress - Venus (rules Taurus and Libra)
4 - Emperor - Aries
5 - Hierophant - Taurus
6 - Lovers - Gemini
7 - Cancer - Chariot
8 - Strength - Leo
9 - Hermit - Virgo
10 - Wheel of Fortune - Jupiter (rules Sagittarius)
11 - Justice - Libra
12 - Hanged Man - Neptune (rules Moon)
13 - Death - Scorpio
14 - Temperance - Sagittarius
15 - Devil - Capricorn
16 - Tower - Mars (rules Aries)
17 - Star - Aquarius
18 - Moon - Pisces
19 - Sun - Sun (rules Strength)
20 - Judgement - Pluto (rules Scorpio)
21 - World - Saturn (rules Devil)

Rodney

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by dangerdork

And speaking of Sevens, I've been turning over in my head different patterns of sevens that may be applicable. Seven Planets, Seven Days of the Week, Seven Ages of Man (Shakespeare, so it postdates origins of Tarot... unless he GOT them from an earlier source.) Seven Virtues, Seven days of the Week, Seven Notes of the Musical Scale, Seven colors of the rainbow... I'm becoming a numerologist in spite of myself.

The Seven Planets I've discussed in the last post.

The Seven Days of the Week could work:
Sunday - Origin
Monday - Inspiration (although I'm not too sure how inspired I am on Monday )
Tuesday - Power
Wednesday - Turning Point (also known as hump day)
Thursday - Transformation
Friday - Epiphany (the weekend's almost here!)
Saturday - Destiny (the day I live for!)

The Seven Ages of Man kinda fits if you use modern names:
Infancy - Origin
Childhood - Inspiration
Adolescence - Power
Young Adult - Turning Point
Adult - Transformation
Old Age - Epiphany
Dementia and Death - Destiny

It's time for me to get ready for bed, so I'll have to get back to the other sevens.

Rodney

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by dangerdork

And speaking of Sevens, I've been turning over in my head different patterns of sevens that may be applicable. Seven Planets, Seven Days of the Week, Seven Ages of Man (Shakespeare, so it postdates origins of Tarot... unless he GOT them from an earlier source.) Seven Virtues, Seven days of the Week, Seven Notes of the Musical Scale, Seven colors of the rainbow... I'm becoming a numerologist in spite of myself.

Picking back up with the Virtues, according to this Wikipedia page, there are two sets of virtues - Cardinal/Theological and Heavenly. While the Virtues might be made to fit a path (most likely the Inner Path), I don't think they're indicative of the stations. Others may disagree, and I'm willing to be persuaded.

I don't know enough about the musical scale to know whether there's a strong correspondence with the Seven Stations. (It's been 30+ years since I've regularly read music.)

As for colors, I know red is the beginning of the visible spectrum and violet is the end of it, so it would be:

Origin - Red
Inspiration - Orange
Power - Yellow
Turning Point - Green
Transformation - Blue
Epiphany - Indigo
Destiny - Violet

Again, I don't think they quite mesh, but I can be persuaded to change my mind.

That's all the correspondences with the number seven that you mentioned, so I'm going back to finish reading through the thread. (And FTR, I don't think the Seven Dwarfs fit either.... )

Rodney

[Junia]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

So I look at the elemental associations of the Restored Tarot in the Chain layout and discover something rather interesting (bizarre?) - the Majors have been reordered so that all the cards of the same element are together! Since there are 24 Majors and four elements, that leaves 6 Majors per element. Well, there are 3 paths, so there are two of each element in each path. SO ALL THREE PATHS ARE ELEMENTALLY NEUTRAL! You've got to be f-ing kidding me!!!!! None of the paths are active or passive, but all of them are neutral?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Rodney

There is an interesting parallel in astrophysics (or at least I thought so): When we sent The Hubble Space Telescope up a number of years ago, one of the questions that we hoped to have answered was the curvature of space. There were three possibilities--the answer to which, seems to me to tie in and applies here from looking at the quotation above. What we found was that space was flat. Meaning the average density = critical density. Hence the total energy is equal to Zero (0). In Tarot Revelations, which I am still slugging through, The Fool (0) begins/ends the cycle or layout. It never ends, so, does the journey itself always come up Neutral? Do we not hope to resolve the opposites? The Fool is integrated. Therefore is he not neutral (being neither passive nor active)?

I hope that I am not completely off the subject here. But, in the path of metaphysics (especially quantum mechanics [where I am going bald trying to fathom]), it seems to me, that, at some point, all truth must meet and converge.

This is my humble contribution--for what it is worth. Anyway, this is an interesting thread. I hope that I have not convoluted the original issue too much.

[celticnoodle]

this is quite an interesting thread. I'm going to try it too--maybe today.

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by Junia

I hope that I am not completely off the subject here. But, in the path of metaphysics (especially quantum mechanics [where I am going bald trying to fathom]), it seems to me, that, at some point, all truth must meet and converge.

Hi Junia,

I need to go back and read what I wrote in context. While I was apparently annoyed at my discovery back then, I know that balance/neutrality/convergence are necessary. There can't be good without evil, light without dark, up without down, etc.

The paths of the Seven Stations aren't balanced. Does that make them any better or worse than the paths of The Chain? I'm willing to bet that answer is "No."

Rodney

[rwcarter]

celticnoodle,

Please let us know what you find out. I'd laid one of the Minor Arcana paths out when I realized that I'd done the Major Arcana spread, but hadn't actually studied the Major Arcana layout with my Thoth-based deck. I'll be doing that tomorrow (hopefully) and reporting back.

Rodney

[re-pete-a]

When every thing is found to be in perfect balance the next phase starts. Meaning , good, bad, the whole, is exactly that, whole.
Am thinking that a bag of marked and numbered objects, picked at random,could be matched to the appropriate majors. Then either added to a reading for clarifying or as part of a reading.


7 numbers could also be chosen and matched to give a full reading. Matching up to the 3 way,path split .
The three paths , The head , the heart ,the feet, or Intellect,emotions the work needed .
The three paths could also match the three higher constitutions , Manas, Buddhi,Atman. (hidden )

[rwcarter]

Just poking my head back in to say that I managed to lay out out the Majors and see how/if the Ancient Egyptian Tarot (which is Thoth-based) synched up with the Seven Stations. I finished the Outer and Inner Paths and started the Hidden Path and then life intruded. I should be able to finish the Hidden Path tomorrow and give a complete report. I'll post my actual interpretations of the cards in their stations in the AET study group and link there from here.

Rodney