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The Empresses Bag? (Noblet)


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The Empresses Bag? (Noblet)




What is that on the Empresses lap covering up the side of her shield...

A Bag?



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prudence  prudence is offline
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Hmm, that is strange...and why use the flesh color for it? I wonder also, what is that shape below her left elbow?....sort of like an upside down umbrella with 2 handles.
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Some close-ups:

This is as I have the original scan



and adjusted in an attempt to see the darker areas more easily

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some further thoughts...

the bag on her lap has on it's inner most side on the bottom (the side closest to her mid-line) a lion-esque forearm or front leg, with paw at the end. It seems to have 4 toes. Does anyone else see that?

Also, the umbrella can be seen as some type of cup/bowl that is catching a stream of golden liquid. The stream seems to come from the bottom of the Empress' forearm. Off to the side of that bowl in a most conspicuous way, is a flag like shape, a flag that is made up of 3 streamers or points.
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I'm not sure I agree - I remember when I first looked at the Noblet when I first received the trump-only edition, I wondered if not only was this meant to be something that perhaps had been mixed later, but also another relation and connection with the card preceding it (Papesse) and its title as 'paunch' (for II) in the Dodal...

But then, when i consider not so much the colouration, but rather the lines that define the image, it seems to me that it presents a type of high-waisted 'belt' with folding material around it.

Still, it would be interesting to see consider perhaps why she may also have such a bag resting in such a manner on her lap - but at this stage, remain unconvinced.
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p.s. I meant my comment, by the way, as to whether the depiction is likely intended as bag.

In terms of a reading situation, I would as likely make use of this detail as it stands should my focus bring it to light!
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I agree with JMD--it looks like an obi-like sash to me around her waist. And on the right, it looks like a continuation of the upholstery, with some kind of decorative tie.

At any rate, ignoring the colors is the #1 rule with these old cards, I'm convinced. Whoever colored them hadn't the foggiest idea what they were looking at.

've got a repro of the Tarot de Paris and it's totally impossible to see what's going on--much weirder than the Vieville (and much less charming, in my view)-- because the "color boy" just slapped big blocks of color here and there seemingly at random.

Drunk, maybe.
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It's too bad that we loose so much detail sometimes with these dark colors. Sometimes it's amazingly hard to see if there are lines underneath. I want to know if the area colored blue is below her arm is connected somehow? Does it have lines too?

Of course, probably no one dreamed that people would be looking at them in this detail hundreds of years later.

For reading, I think taking the colors into consideration is fine; but I would never use them to make any kind of decision about a card generally. They vary so much deck from deck, and sometimes they really are horribly sloppy. Other times, it appears to me that much better choices could have been made as to how to color a card. We have to also take into consideration the limits of the technology, I suspect choices for color would be different if they weren't limited by the stenciling technique.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmd
But then, when i consider not so much the colouration, but rather the lines that define the image, it seems to me that it presents a type of high-waisted 'belt' with folding material around it.
But the shield is behind the 'belt', unless she has rolls of fatty tyres perhaps?
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I think it looks like a grain bag...and the more I look at her the more I see her saying...these are my things to hold and safeguard...the shield (to protect)..the bag, bounty (to provide)...the wand (to rule.)
All three of these making up the most important aspects of a successful community.
Freedom from harm.
Freedom from want.
And stable government to hold it all together.

One of the things I learned in my first weeks study of the Noblet deck is that the Empress is looking straight ahead...and no matter how you arrange the cards forward or backward she is the center point of the line up.

A woman is the heart of the home ...she sets the tone of the home.
Like the teeshirt says...If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
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