Splungeman said:
How many fish is an umbrella? I thought that was common knowledge.
I feel like I clearly lack the mental dexterity (and vocabulary) necessary to in any way respond to the above post without looking like a neanderthal by comparison. All I can say is that I *think* I disagree with you. I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever had anything I've ever written so thoroughly dissected, analyzed, and decimated. I am out of my league here. You were going after the usage of the word "can" for heaven's sake! I can't compete with that! Not that I was really trying to compete...
I will abandon this question because raising it has only seemed to make me look like an idiot (I have experience in that field...so the feeling is not new). I mean idiot in the best way of course...as in one who is humbled. Perhaps I did merely use different words to regurgitate an old debate, but I didn't (and still don't) believe that to be the case. And I think I got some responses that provided a little insight into what I was getting at...so I'm satisfied in that regard. Feeling more battered and bruised (mentally) than I was expecting, but hey...I'm probably the better for it...right? Right?
But hey! I do have one bone to pick before I log out tonight! I thought using a silly word like 'glorp' was perfectly reasonable given the negative response to using the word 'intuition'! I had no intention of launching into a semantics debate, so I decided to just make something up. Plus "glorp" is more fun to say than "intuition" or "psychic". Say it right now! Say it repeatedly! See?! SEE?!
*bursts into tears and slinks away to find some Nyquil and a bed*
LOL
Eek. I didn't mean to stop you asking anything. Questions are the fabric of human advancement! And you certainly aren't an idiot if you can start an interestng debate.
I didn't mean to dissect your question, but if people aren't clear in their use of language then nothing is being communicated. I feel like we're all standing in the dark shouting through walls. I did feel like there was a basic confusion inherent there that you weren't seeing. But as Eco says, that's how a conversation proceeds.
It's not that the discussion isn't interesting or possible, it's just that without clear terms we aren't really discussing anything. We're just patting each other on the back and nodding without knowing what we're nodding at. This Study/Intuition convo is an unkillable beast because of the way these words are understood in our culture...
I'm always happy to discuss ideas and their implications, but let's figure out what some of the words mean before we start slinging them around.
I've got a related question for everyone and I ask it knowing that I'm asking about preconceptions: why do people characterize Study as arduous, rigid, and trivial? Why do people characterize Intuition as something natural, easy, and instant?
In the interests of conversation I'll answer my own question and see if people agree or disagree. I think people embrace Intuition/Psi/Glorping because our stripmined culture fundamentally believes that magic is something that happens without a cost: Make a wish, click your heels, drink that potion, Abracadabra... Instant graticifcation
in excelsis for the land of instant gratification. I also think we live in a culture that detests effort: we like what it can accomplish and are quick to praise the showy outward signs, but children have parties at the END of school, tests are something you have to beat, adults will proudly talk about playing hooky or the last time they read a book. The actual process of learning is demonized and ridiculed.
I disagree halfway with Solitaire: I know many members of Western culture believes "every answer can be found in a book," but they believe that because they don't actualy open them. People always situate universal wisdom somewhere that the are NOT, because it takes the bullseye off of them. Books have become this treacherous, scary, slightly painful experience that people have to live through in order to escape back to the land of sunshine and ease. A hundred years ago, people starved to buy a single book and treasured it as something that would elevate their children from grinding poverty by means of education. Today books are on sale every 15 feet and people can barely muster the gumption to read a pulpy novel. If you don't believe me, look at the numbers for the publishing industry. Light popular fiction is what supports the rest of the publishing industry.
Of course, as I keep saying, study is not just bound up in books. This systemic belief goes further. How many children/people say they want to be "famous" or "get rich" but cannot tell you what they're going to accomplish that will produce these rewards? This is the hideous belief in "overnight success" that has been promulgated in the United States to the detriment of our very lives. Since anyone can be a superstar, even if they have no talent, and the only prize everyone seems to universally desire is fame, why bother doing molecular biology or learn to design software? It is this same belief that makes people buy lottery tickets when they can't afford to feed their children. As my mother would say: it's investment for people who cannot do math and it leaves the entire world poorer.
I think the reason I, personally, get so worked up about the perennial Study/Intuition discussion is that I believe that it speaks to a larger willful blindness that everyone tiptoes around which is literally dissolving our respect for human aspiration. How many people understand that a career physicist or obscure historian can have a flash of intuitive genius that will transform the entire world we know it as if by magic?: cel phones, the Bill of Rights, the polio vaccine, electric light, the Rosetta Stone... People prefer to live in a world where nothing can be accomplished because it absolves them of responsibility.
Now, all of this is simply my opinion, and I don't think that everyone does or should agree with me. I just think that everything we say has larger implications: for how we treat each other, how we raise our children, and how the world fits together... I do think people should think about the sources and follow-through of the things they think they believe. This is what it means to be a responsible member of a society. Mindlessly repeating platitudes or repeating lies we wish were true is the way to create the Holocaust of WWII... or WWIII.
Using words without defining them is the way people end up in prison and in graves.
I don't think I'm overstating things here, but I wanted to explain what gets me so worked up in this topic. We live in a world that is being leached of magic by fascist morons and well-meaning dingdongs who think that occult ability is either impossible or universally accessible with zero training. Both of these positions are ridiculous and fraught with peril.
I hope that it's okay to actually discuss these things. These are big questions being asked, however unintentionally. Splunge, I really did NOT mean to make you feel like you couldn't talk about this topic. But I wanted us to be clear, otherwise we would have been talking about nothing.
If Intuition is direct perception of truth independent of any reasoning process and Study is direct perception of truth dependent on direct observation and reasoning... how do they interrelate? I'd love to know what people really think and believe.
Scion
