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finn's Avatar
Join Date: 23 Sep 2002
Location: shanghai
Posts: 105
Lightbulb The Devil, in a relationship spread

I was wondering what The Devil (upright) would mean in the position of "expected outcome" in a relationship spread. does it mean free from being clamped down or what? thanks.


`It's a pun!' the King added in an offended tone, and everybody laughed, `Let the jury consider their verdict,' the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
`No, no!' said the Queen. `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.'
`Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. `The idea of having the sentence first!'
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Old 16-11-2002     Top   #1
allibee's Avatar
Join Date: 09 Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,805

Hi Finn

In a relationship spread, the devil often speaks of a hot and passionate affair, but, more importantly, speaks of a relationship based on all the wrong reasons. A real dead end street. Tied to the wrong people through material or physical desires. But the devil is a personal one of your own making, not an external character.

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Old 16-11-2002     Top   #2
Trogon's Avatar
Join Date: 27 Aug 2002
Location: Arizona, USA
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Hi finn!

I'd have to agree with what allibee said. Though I would add that The Devil, to me, also carries the idea of addiction. In this sort of reading, without knowing what the other cards were, I think of the person who is in a codependent relationship. In other words, if this is a relatively new relationship, this card may be indicating that it may be headed towards codependency - with all of the accompanying unpleasantness that brings.

Personally... I don't think this is a card which bodes well for the relationship.

"A famous person once said; 'you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time' ... but, as I (an even more famous person) say; 'if you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like!'"
[Max Headroom]
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Old 16-11-2002     Top   #3
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Join Date: 05 Aug 2001
Location: Virginia, U.S.A.
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Finn: I agree with Aillibee & Trogon. It feels like a dependency-type forecast, but likely has the earmarks of same already.

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Old 16-11-2002     Top   #4
Talisman's Avatar
Join Date: 18 Aug 2001
Location: Travelin' . . . like a ball of twine unravelin'
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I agree, but . . .

'Lo finn,

Look, it would be absurd for me to disagree with what allibee, Trogon, and, above all, MeeWah have told you ('specially 'cause I don't), but . . .

You say this is the "outcome" card in a relationship spread. I simply don't believe you can read a single card in a spread -- repeat, in a spread -- and say what it means.

Otherwise, you see, you lay out the cards in any spread, and nail down the "meaning" of each one, but they are like islands in a vast ocean that have no means of communicating with each other.

If one could understand the story, and determine its meaning, by simply looking at a single card, then why bother using a spread at all? It's as if I told you the final score was 7 to 6. Yes, but, who was playing? What were they playing? What? What?

So, in a spread, in isolation, the Devil card, means -- nothing. Nothing at all.

Some things it COULD mean: It could mean lust, gluttony, excess, yes, addiction, something holding one back, a signal that attitudes must be changed. It could mean unhealthy greed. It could mean a dark obsession that undermines the body or spirit. It could mean a signal to look at desires that have been repressed or one is afraid of. (Yeah, like sex, which can be both feared and desired.) It could be a lesson, the old ying/yang thing, that light and dark must co-exist.

If I tell you all it is raining in my living room, what could it mean? Could mean there's a hole in the roof. Could mean a tornado blew the roof off. Could mean the pipes in the apartment above me burst. Could mean I'm delusional. Could mean I'm a storyteller, a liar. Could mean . . .

finn, I suggest you go way, way down in the forums to the one called "Your Readings" and post the entire spread, along with such information as you deem important. There are people there who enjoy reading for others, and some, I suspect, are very, very good. Then you'll find out what the Devil means.


The secret to magic is knowing what to wish for. If you wish for things you're not going to get, your magic will never work.
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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #5
allibee's Avatar
Join Date: 09 Nov 2002
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That would have been a lot easier said as: its difficult to consider the whole meaning of the devil in that position without seeing the other cards in the spread lol
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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #6
Teal's Avatar
Join Date: 09 Sep 2002
Location: Pacific Northwest
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I did a relationship spread on my friend John, who I've known for over 20 years and will be my travelling companion. I got the Devil card among others, but for me what it signified was this:

I'm reminded that John and I are both recovering alcoholics----he with over 20 years sobriety and I with over 18 years----and at one time, my relationship with him while we were both still drinking was very much a co-dependency relationship, with me feeling chained as if I could never get away. We now have a much more independent type of friendship between us that's not based on sex or any of the sick psychological stuff we were linked by before because we've both progressed so much out of those things. The Devil card in the spread I did was like a reminder to me that we've both suffered from addiction but that the connection we still have need not go there as long as we remain in recovery. I didn't find it to be a derogatory or ominous card at all. Rather, just one of the truths about our continuing friendship over the years.
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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #7
allibee's Avatar
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Location: UK
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I'm really, really pleased about you and your partners continued recovery, and that is the advice of the card too, the element of free will and the ability to break free and become independant from your personal demons.
Some other notes from my Tarot Journal on the Devil are: Struggle for freedom from destructive patterns. Allowing control by someone/something. Breaking free from any influences that enslave self esteem.
They are many ways to look at this, and all the cards in fact, just depending on the question, the spread and the throw really.

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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #8
Teal's Avatar
Join Date: 09 Sep 2002
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Thank you for the expression of support about our recovery, allibee. You may know that it's a rough road for those of us who have addictions but seek to recover. I'm very thankful that both John and I have come so far, because statistics are against people like us.

The Devil card in the Ancestral Path deck shows a woman in abject misery on her knees behind a man she's chained to, and of the Devil cards, this one expresses very well the misery I suffered for years in a succession of abusive relationships till I got counselling. I really identified with that card when I saw it.
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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #9
emily2otters's Avatar
Join Date: 11 Apr 2002
Location: washington, usa
Posts: 255

another possible interpretation of the devil: lies. he is, after all, the prince of lies.

emily two otters
all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. - julian of norwich
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Old 17-11-2002     Top   #10
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