muddy

Ive been reading tarot for years, happy with both illustrated and non-illustrated pips, though know Ive still got loads to learn, and I was drawn recently to the Thoth deck. Just one look at the Thoth deck and you just know that some help and guidance is needed along the way for these cards if you are going to get the most out of them. I personally don´t think it´s a deck you can just pick up and launch into...there´s just so much evident symbolism and cross-referencing and mystical contextualising. I know some people willl say "O I just picked it up and it reads like a dream". But Im not so sure....

I realised from here that the key text to this deck is the DuQuette "Understanding AC´s Thoth Tarot". I ordered a copy from amazon a couple of weeks ago and I feel so disappointed both with this and now with the deck! And I was so keen to get into Thoth! I just feel that all the necessary detail is too overwhelming. And I thought the DuQuette book would help it all make sense, or at least give me some sort of springboard. After all, I have some tarot background. And an academic background, which seems to me necessary for entering this universe as the texts and citations are so elaborate. But my Thoth plans have just gone all muddy. I was so keen to delve deeper! I don´t personally feel like I can read this as a normal deck (O and just change the court cards accordingly. And Judgment. And Justice &c). It warrants more than this. Yet the DuQuette hasnt really enlightened me, just made me aware of how much stuff I´ll never really understand about it. I know some say they just pick it up and read naturally with it and have never read any background stuff. I find myself questioning this. Thoth to me is the James Joyce of tarot. Difficult but probably endlessly rewarding. And like everything, the more you probe, the more fascinating it is.

But I don´t feel any more enlightened after having almost read DuQuette. I really dont know what celestial quadrants, quadrants of space, exalted Mercury, the Key Scale - and a host of other things which arent in the glossary - are. I don´t even feel like picking up my Crowley deck. And the last part of the book is becoming a slog. And it surprises me as I usually find tarot literature unputdownable. I feel sad and unmotivated..... A shame...

Maybe you should take a break?

And go back to study the Thoth when you feel you need it again.

It's really an interesting deck.

I began to study it a few weeks ago and read the beginning of Duquette book.
It's a lot of informations, I am actually taking a break...

But I am sure I will go back to study it (not sure when).

I have read with it, and I have not gone into great depth in finding about the different symbols, and whatever else in the cards. I do tend to read "OK" with it, but I do tend to read quite intuitively with it.

But then coming in here, and seeing references to this, that and the other, and not knowing what the other people are going on about, I am tempted to get more into it.

Basically, you can go as far with it as you feel comfortable with. Doesn't mean that you can't read with it at all.

Now, all I need to know is how to get my hands on the book/books.

Hey Le Fanu.

Sorry to hear that the Thoth is not helping you at the moment. I think that as DuQuette says there are lots of little bits that it's best to know before you can get the most out of it.

If it's any help, I would try and have some fun with it without taking it so deadly seriously at first. I have found the deck reacts quite well to that - it likes flirting. I made some astrological charts of my own with it at first; bought Quigley's book like Lon suggested; played around with it on Orphalese (an awesome program). I even cropped a set and laminated the cards. All this whilst reading Lon's book. I found that helped me a lot and the deck is my firm favourite.

Studying the Thoth is like learning a new language. In fact several languages, DuQuette is also giving you a primer in Qabalah, Astrology, Magic, Thelema, etc.. Don't take it to heart that you can't get all the details down pat from one reading.

I'd suggest you focus on a small bit at a time, and study that before you move on. Duquette is good as he introduces a lot of stuff in an easier way, but he doesn't give all the details, its just a brief introduction.

Maybe do chapter at a time, and before moving on the the next chapter, come to the boards here with questions about things you didn't understand. We have a few highly knowledgeable walking encyclopedias on call I'm sure someone can help with any question.

Hi Le Fanu

Le Fanu said:

I personally don´t think it´s a deck you can just pick up and launch into...there´s just so much evident symbolism and cross-referencing and mystical contextualising. I know some people willl say "O I just picked it up and it reads like a dream". But Im not so sure....

Click to expand...

It's the Magicians Tarot. Anyone who picks it up and immediatly read it like a dream are either naturally Tarot talented, have studied magic/k or exagerating (or blowing off ego). of course one can get immediate benefiets but it goes a LOT deeper than the surface ... however one can just use the surface.

Le Fanu said:

I realised from here that the key text to this deck is the DuQuette "Understanding AC´s Thoth Tarot". I ordered a copy from amazon a couple of weeks ago and I feel so disappointed both with this and now with the deck! And I was so keen to get into Thoth! I just feel that all the necessary detail is too overwhelming. And I thought the DuQuette book would help it all make sense, or at least give me some sort of springboard. After all, I have some tarot background.

Click to expand...

I disagree with the reccommendation and suggest you start with the Book of Thoth - I'm not saying it's easier but that is the book that goes with the deck - originally.

Le Fanu said:

And an academic background, which seems to me necessary for entering this universe as the texts and citations are so elaborate. But my Thoth plans have just gone all muddy. I was so keen to delve deeper! I don´t personally feel like I can read this as a normal deck (O and just change the court cards accordingly. And Judgment. And Justice &c).

Click to expand...

No, don't waste your time it is not a 'normal' deck, it is a special deck in tune with the new Aonic energies that are initiating all of us, hence, certain changes and re-expressions of formulas.

Le Fanu said:

It warrants more than this. Yet the DuQuette hasnt really enlightened me, just made me aware of how much stuff I´ll never really understand about it.

Click to expand...

Or ... how much stuff I have yet to learn ... a wise man knows his own ignorance, so you are off to a flying start!

Le Fanu said:

I know some say they just pick it up and read naturally with it and have never read any background stuff. I find myself questioning this. Thoth to me is the James Joyce of tarot. Difficult but probably endlessly rewarding. And like everything, the more you probe, the more fascinating it is.

Click to expand...

Exactly, one can admire the surface, even use it to an extent, but much more exist in the depths, and you seem to realise this. It takes time to learn complex things, as you must know as an academic, yet one hits a stage where it all starts to swirl and morph together ... then you are in the zone.

Le Fanu said:

But I don´t feel any more enlightened after having almost read DuQuette. I really dont know what celestial quadrants, quadrants of space, exalted Mercury, the Key Scale - and a host of other things which arent in the glossary - are. I don´t even feel like picking up my Crowley deck. And the last part of the book is becoming a slog. And it surprises me as I usually find tarot literature unputdownable. I feel sad and unmotivated..... A shame...

Click to expand...

Chuck out Duquette and just work with the cards a bit, lay them out, look at the colors, forms, make the decanate wheel out of the small cards, group and re-group, play with them a bit and if you want to continue on this path, get a copy of Book of Thoth, Liber Abba and go at your own pace.

The Duquette book is sort of like a "Thoth Tarot For Dummies". It was very helpful to me in the begining, but with your background in tarot, I'm not surprised that you found it to be a bit light on substance.

The Book of Thoth goes a bit deeper. But if you don't like the deck, then don't bother- it's not an easy book to follow.

-tb

Le Fanu,

While Crowley's _Book of Thoth_ and books such as DuQuette's are great for understanding the deck as conceived by Crowley, if you find them too overwhelming for the time being and just want to have fun with the deck, and you have every right to have fun, why not try some of the more intuitive approaches to the deck in books such as Gerd Ziegler's _Mirror of the Soul_ and Banzhaf's _Keywords for the Crowley Tarot_.

As well, check out Harris' description of the cards of the deck from her 1940s exhibition guide.

Then, when and if you want to explore deeper, _Book of Thoth_ and books such as DuQuette's will be there for you.

Try this

Le Fanu,
I toyed with the Thoth, but as a beginner, I sort of let it go. However there is a book that I recommend: "Tarot, the Handbook" by Angeles Arrien which uses only the Thoth as reference. Even though I've returned to the RW deck, I still read the interpretations of the Thoth Majors in this book to expand my understanding, and find these interpretations to be more complex and interesting than the average ones that you generally come across. The book is very well written and relatively easy, enjoyable reading.

Don't panic...

It took me years to understand the Thoth. Yeah, I've read DuQuette and The Book of Thoth, and it helps, but when I read with it, I generaly just spew whatever impressions I get at the time. Somehow it makes sense.

Banzhaf's books are helpful for actually reading with the Thoth. Uncle Al will tell you his ideas about what his deck is about, while Duquette will translate what Uncle Al was saying.

Just take your time and don't be too hard on your self.