stella01904
I think it does, because the Swords are so dire. You don't see this so much with the older (pre-RWS) Tarot decks. The pictures just seem very close to spades playing card interps to me.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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RWS owes much to Victorian cartomancy?
stella01904
Hmm, no takers.
Okay, think of the Three of Swords.
Now, the Three of Spades:
Traditional Meanings:
The 3 is traditionally a card of loss, infidelity, spite, malice and
vindictiveness. It can indicate interference from an outside source,
or
the jealousy and possessiveness of a love triangle.
Numerological Influences:
The Number Three represents expansion, combinations, communications,
creativity and growth.
What the Experts Have to Say:
Wenzell Brown: Sudden resolution and swift decisions based on
vindictiveness and spite.
Ron Cain: Emotional or physical loss.
Leo Louis Martello: Third-party interference, anger, impatience,
irritation.
Lucinda Michaels: Quarrels and misunderstandings with loved ones.
Louise Woods: Sadness, Tears and Misery.
Sophia: Indecision and stubbornness.
Specific Meanings:
The 3 represents negative emotions such as anger, spite, malice,
vindictiveness, and the affect that bad feelings have on oneself and
others such as misery, tears, fear, etc. The 3 can also indicate
trouble in the home, in friendship or in a romantic relationship
coming
from the outside.
************
RWS seems much closer to this, than to the older Tarots.
Okay, think of the Three of Swords.
Now, the Three of Spades:
Traditional Meanings:
The 3 is traditionally a card of loss, infidelity, spite, malice and
vindictiveness. It can indicate interference from an outside source,
or
the jealousy and possessiveness of a love triangle.
Numerological Influences:
The Number Three represents expansion, combinations, communications,
creativity and growth.
What the Experts Have to Say:
Wenzell Brown: Sudden resolution and swift decisions based on
vindictiveness and spite.
Ron Cain: Emotional or physical loss.
Leo Louis Martello: Third-party interference, anger, impatience,
irritation.
Lucinda Michaels: Quarrels and misunderstandings with loved ones.
Louise Woods: Sadness, Tears and Misery.
Sophia: Indecision and stubbornness.
Specific Meanings:
The 3 represents negative emotions such as anger, spite, malice,
vindictiveness, and the affect that bad feelings have on oneself and
others such as misery, tears, fear, etc. The 3 can also indicate
trouble in the home, in friendship or in a romantic relationship
coming
from the outside.
************
RWS seems much closer to this, than to the older Tarots.
MareSaturni
It makes sense, but i was wondering...if Waite was a member of the Golden Dawn...why would he have mixed his tarot with cartomancy. I love cartomancy, but i imagine that the guys from 'secret orders' would see this as nothing more than a lowly parlour game.
Anyway, we all know that tarot was first a just game, and only later became a divination tool. And playing cards, on the other hands, have been used as divination tool for a much longer time...it's possible that they two might have mixed. The cups meanings in RWS are indeed closer to the hearts in playing cards. See the ace or the two of cups/heart...you wouldn't know the difference.
Anyway, we all know that tarot was first a just game, and only later became a divination tool. And playing cards, on the other hands, have been used as divination tool for a much longer time...it's possible that they two might have mixed. The cups meanings in RWS are indeed closer to the hearts in playing cards. See the ace or the two of cups/heart...you wouldn't know the difference.
Teheuti
Waite was very much influenced by the description of playing card fortune telling found in Robert Chambers' Book of Days for Feb. 21 (first published in 1864). You will find that this is the major source for Waite’s interpretations as “Grand Orient.”
http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm
Scroll about a third of the way down the page to "The Folklore of Playing Cards," in part based on fortune-telling techniques used by soldier’s wives in the early 19th century British Empire.
Mary
http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm
Scroll about a third of the way down the page to "The Folklore of Playing Cards," in part based on fortune-telling techniques used by soldier’s wives in the early 19th century British Empire.
Mary
Bernice
Tehteuti:
Many thanks for that link Tehteuti. Very interesting and informative.
Now we know where the 'Jacks as thoughts' meaning comes from! Unless, of course, it can be traced back to an earlier source.
Bee
Many thanks for that link Tehteuti. Very interesting and informative.
Now we know where the 'Jacks as thoughts' meaning comes from! Unless, of course, it can be traced back to an earlier source.
Bee
Cerulean
A.E. Waite and French cartomancy article by him
Here's a free download, Adobe format from a Hermetics archive of old material. There's more on the Hermetics.org site as well:
www.hermetics.org/pdf/Waite_Cards.pdf
And his 1909 "Key to the Tarot" is available free at sacred texts, where the information sometimes reminded me of Papus's texts in Tarot of the Bohemians--others, such as Teheuti have pointed out A.E. Waite translated such texts for English speakers of his time.
Cheers,
Cerulean
Here's a free download, Adobe format from a Hermetics archive of old material. There's more on the Hermetics.org site as well:
www.hermetics.org/pdf/Waite_Cards.pdf
And his 1909 "Key to the Tarot" is available free at sacred texts, where the information sometimes reminded me of Papus's texts in Tarot of the Bohemians--others, such as Teheuti have pointed out A.E. Waite translated such texts for English speakers of his time.
Cheers,
Cerulean
