The Mona Lisa Tarot: Puzzle Groupings

GypsyHeart

I just looked through this deck. Wow. I wasn't really prepared to be as surprised and delighted as I was. I can't wait to dig in. The images are really rich and beautiful. Although not simple RWS clones (mostly what I'm comfortable with), this makes me want to challenge myself. Very inspiring.

The LWB says that there are hidden symbols that repeat through the deck and if you find them and take the cards out, you can find puzzles. If you figure them out, you will "discover a delightful secret." Has anyone done this?

Well, I'm going to try :grin:
 

rwcarter

GypsyHeart and gregory,

Have either of you made any progress on the puzzle? I just read that in the LWB last night and am intrigued enough to give it a try myself. I have a long weekend and no plans, so....

Rodney
 

GypsyHeart

rwcarter said:
GypsyHeart and gregory,

Have either of you made any progress on the puzzle? I just read that in the LWB last night and am intrigued enough to give it a try myself. I have a long weekend and no plans, so....

Rodney

Funny, did start making some groupings then got distracted. But then last night I remembered, so told myself I'd try to make some headway this evening (have a lovely night to myself!).

I've got four groupings, not counting a Mona Lisa grouping (lots of cards in that one and not sure if it's one of the groups). Also, one odd subgroup that only has two cards in it.

EDITED to add: okay, there are quite a few more than four. Some with only two cards. Whatever this is, I think it's quite complicated and would love to have some people to bounce ideas around with.

Do you want me to say my groups? I've only grouped them but haven't yet tried to find the messages. I'll work on these later and post whatever I discover.

If you don't want to see my list, read no further!

******POSSIBLE SPOILER******















young man (actor) The Stars, Death, 8 of Pents
older man Emperor, The Fool, 10 of Wands (there is another older man but he has a beard with no mustache, so not sure if he's in the group)
young woman (some of these I'm not sure are the same, as all I see is her long hair) 5 of pents, 2 of swords, 2 of pents, 8 of cups, High Priestess
old woman 10 of cups, 3 of cups, ace of swords, Temperance, 3 of swords
odd subgroup: Temperance and The Magician both have that same heart in them

I also see a few pope or bishop stories, one collection of artists (do they go together?). a veiled lady, a picking and planting man, and a climbing couple. I bet there are even more.
 

rwcarter

I was thinking about creating a separate thread for the puzzle so as not to bore those who aren't interested and so as to not spoil anything for anyone who might want to tackle the puzzle on their own. Good idea? Bad idea?

I think I've made 8 or 9 groupings of cards and still have a stack left to figure out. Some of the groups have a lot of cards in them and some only have 2 or 3. Haven't had a chance to look at it though in over a week cause life has intruded on my tarot time.

Rodney
 

rwcarter

Puzzle groupings

So far I've come up with 11 groupings of cards with 15 cards that I just can't seem to group. I haven't looked at the LWB yet to see what the descriptions are of the various cards.

Church/Religion group:
Fool - fallen pope as beggar
High Priestess - female pope
Hierophant - pope in a graveyard
Hanged Man - two popes as marionettes
7 Chalices - pope sleeping while his drink is being poisoned
8 Chalices - woman holding a chalice in a church with a bunch of upset men behind her
Knave Chalices - baptism
King Chalices - pope is dead after drinking from the poisoned cup
2 Swords - fat pope enjoying the good life
10 Swords - woman laying down (picking up) a sword on (from) an open bible
5 Wands - pope being accosted by 4 angry men
Ace Pentacles - a man(?) praying in front of an altar
King Pentacles - pope laying in state with the woman who poisoned him looking on

Family group
Empress - child being accused of stealing from a market vendor
Strength - mother watching while child causes a cat to levitate
Judgment - family looking on as eldest son(?) arises from the grave
5 Chalices - family mourning buried person as father pours red mixture onto the grave
10 Chalices - mother and child walking through marketplace as old woman watches
7 Wands - mother and child being accosted by man with a stick
Knave Wands - very muscularly-armed baby grasping finger of woman
7 Pentacles - mother and child being kicked out of tavern

Artists/Art group
Hermit - man seen painting a valley scene
Sun - sculptor chiseling a naked woman
World - Mona Lisa showing off a portrait of da Vinci that she's just finished
Ace Wands - artist painting a forest scene
9 Wands - two excavators find a statute of a nude woman in a recessed alcove behind another wall
King Wands - view from the easel(?) as we see the artist paint red lines
8 Pentacles - artist painting a man wearing a corset

Fire group
Devil - man (?) holding a lit club walking toward a house with a light burning in the window
Tower - that same house burning to the ground with a distressed woman on her knees on the path
Stars - a man having his palm read by candlelight
3 Swords - a woman reading a letter by candlelight while a baby in a bassinet sleeps off to the right of the card (this card should also be in the family group)
8 Wands - the church appears to be burning in the background while a man reads from a scroll to four kneeling and praying men (could also be in the church group)
(High Priestess, 5 Wands, Ace Pentacles and King Pentacles also show fire. Not sure if the orange background in the 7 Wands is also fire.)

Old Woman group
Temperance - old woman seamstress sewing a heart onto a gown
Ace Swords - old woman seamstress cutting fabric
4 Swords - old woman doing some kind of pendulum reading (scrying?) over Mona Lisa's palm)
(I'm not sure if the old woman in the 10 Chalices is this same old woman.)

Tavern group
Emperor - owner of the tavern (?) looking forlorn
Justice - two men fighting in the tavern
2 Chalices - man and woman eying each other
4 Chalices - four drunkards in the tavern
6 Swords - husband and wife owners of the tavern (?) sharing a meal

Mona Lisa in long, flowing robe group
Chariot - guy trying to fly with homemade wings as Mona Lisa beseeches him from below
Queen Chalices - Mona Lisa floating above a small body of water
5 Swords - Mona Lisa floating in the air above 4 running men

animals group
Knight Pentacles - young man riding a horse to grind grain (could also be part of the family group)
7 Swords - a cat sees a rat who's eating
Knave Swords - young man comes upon a bird that's been stabbed with a sword
Knight Swords - young man with an ax rides his horse into the woods
2 Wands - 2 bulls try to pull the card in opposite directions while a hapless man looks on
Knight Wands - man in a rush riding his horse through the woods
3 Pentacles - working man being turned away(?) from a gated area while his horse/mule stands behind him
4 Pentacles - charging bull gaining ground on a man who won't leave his sack of money behind
5 Pentacles - woman seen from behind on her knees while birds fly overhead
9 Pentacles - Mona Lisa with a colorful bird on her arm (may be same bird from Knave Swords)
Knight Pentacles - well-to-do (ne'er-do-well?) young man racing away on horseback from a gated community with a monk (?) raging against him

Lovers group
6 Chalices - couple climbing up a hill next to a waterfall
3 Wands - couple climbs a somewhat rickety looking ladder that looks to be high above the valley below
Queen Pentacles - couple in bed sharing a romantic moment

This one particular house
Lovers - a number of suitors waiting with gifts outside the front door
3 Chalices - nighttime, all the suitors are gone and there's a despondent woman outside the front door as an old woman (the seamstress?) walks (runs?) away while looking back in anger/disgust

Battle group
8 Swords - the town appears to be under siege
Queen Swords - Mona Lisa is trying to calm the armed townspeople
6 Wands - female warriors stands triumphantly over her downed adversary

Next post, I'll try to form groups stories out of the cards, since grouping by imagery alone doesn't seem the right way to go.

Rodney
 

rwcarter

Storylines

OK, here are the storylines I've come up with so far. Some are quite involved and some only have a few cards. I still have a number of cards that I can't place.

Pope Storyline #1
A young woman is taken advantage of by a man of the cloth (the hand coming from the sky represents the divine as does the Pope) (Moon). He continues to live the good life as she is left alone and pregnant, resenting him for what he's done to her. (2 Swords) She has their child baptized in the Church as she continues to hatch a plan of revenge against him. (Knave Chalices) He begins to feel bad for what he's done and wrestles with his conscience. (Hierophant) He seeks forgiveness from God for his sins (Ace Pentacles). While he's asleep, she sneaks into his quarters and poisons his drink. (7 Chalices) One of the bishops(?) comes into his quarters to find him dead, the poisoned drink spilling from the cup that's gripped in his lifeless hand. (King Chalices) She returns to see him laid up in state. (King Pentacles) She decides that she will take his place, to the surprise of the priest who baptized her child. (10 Swords). There's an uproar from the various sectors of the community as she prepares for her first service. (8 Chalices) The townsfolk are ready to run her out of town by force if necessary, but Mona Lisa tries to talk them out of it. (Queen Swords) She wins the ensuing battle (6 Wands) and gives her first service. (High Priestess)

The Farming Family
A father and his young son are working to convert their grain into meal. (Knight Chalices) A few years later, the son goes off into the forest to chop some wood. (Knight Swords) Something happens and the son is killed. (I can't find a card to fill in this part of the story.) Without his son, the father is rather helpless. (2 Wands) The father pours something (blood?) onto the son's grave as his wife and younger son look on. (5 Chalices) The son arises from the dead as his family awaits him with clothes and food. (Judgement)

The Seamstress
An alchemist looks on happily as the smoke clears from the red heart that he's created. (Magician) An old seamstress cuts some fabric (Ace Swords) onto which she sews the red heart. (Temperance)

There has to be more to this story. Who is that dress for? What power does the heart have or give? I don't see any other cards that appear to go with this storyline....

The Young Dandy
A young man gets his palm read. (The Stars). Whatever the palm reader told him causes him to change his appearance to that of a female. (Death) He poses for a portrait while holding a green jewel. (8 Pentacles)

The Tavern
A couple dines at a tavern (6 Swords), while at another table a group of men are drunk/well on their way to getting there. (4 Chalices) A man is withholding wine from a woman at his table (2 Chalices). A fight breaks out between that man and another man, trashing the tavern. (Justice) The tavern owner is left trying to figure out what happened as he's surrounded by the devastation left by the fight. (Emperor)

Destruction
In the night, a man carries a lit torch as he walks toward a house with a light burning in one window. (The Devil) The next morning, what's left of the house is still smoldering, while the female resident of the house looks as if she still doesn't know what hit her. (The Tower)

The Money Bush
A working class man finds a money bush sprouting outside his house. (10 Pentacles). He digs holes throughout his house, burying a coin from the money bush in each hole in the hopes of getting more money bushes to sprout. (Knave Pentacles) At some later point, his increased wealth slows him down as he tries to escape from a charging bull, but he won't let go of the bag that's holding him back. (4 Pentacles)

The Suitors
A number of young men all bearing gifts wait on the street below a second story window. (Lovers) The young woman makes her choice and gives herself to one of the men. (Queen Pentacles) She apparently made the wrong choice as she lays desolate outside her front door as an old woman (her mother?) walks (runs?) away from her, angrily looking back. (3 Chalices)

Pope Storyline #2
The Pope is run out of town by angry townspeople. (5 Wands) He ends up poor and hurt in another town. (Fool) With the Pope gone, all hell breaks loose in the town. (8 Swords) The King crafts his decree, listing his punishment for the townsfolk. (King Swords) He sends his messenger to the town. (Knight Wands) He reads the King's words as the townsmen beg for forgiveness and the church burns in the background, with the inference being that the King decreed a scorched earth policy. (8 Wands) The next morning a woman who appears to have escaped from the town is on her knees facing a desolate forest. (5 Pentacles)

Somehow I think this storyline is supposed to mesh with the other pope storyline, but I can't figure out how.

The Thief
A young and poor child accepts a gold coin from someone. (6 Pentacles) When he doesn't have money, he lives off stolen apples (9 Chalices) until he gets caught. (Empress)

The Magical Child
An old woman performs some kind of magical ritual over the left hand of Mona Lisa. (4 Swords) Years later, she sees Mona Lisa and her child walking through the marketplace. (10 Chalices) A couple of years later, the child is able to levitate the family cat off the ground. (Strength) As a young man, he is able to fly with the help of homemade wings. (Chariot) Many years later, a much older Mona Lisa points to a painting she's just finished of her son, Leonardo da Vinci. (World)

The Bassinet
A baby grasps the forefinger of an obviously wealthy woman. (Knave Wands) The baby is later sleeping in his bassinet as a woman reads a letter by candlelight. (3 Swords)

There must be some connection between these cards and some other storyline. Might the baby in the bassinet be the magical child?

The Attack
Mona Lisa and her child are being threatened by a man with a big stick. (7 Wands) Her attackers flee as she levitates into the air. (5 Swords)

Might her child be the magical child? Might he have gotten his levitation abilities from his mother?

The Bird
A beautiful and rather elegant blue, silver and purple bird rests on Mona Lisa's outstretched arm, offering her a coin. (9 Pentacles). Some time later, that bird is found dead in the forest with a sword thrust into it. (Knave Swords)

The Statue
A young man chisels a statue of a naked young woman out of a piece of marble. (Sun) Some time later, that statue is found in a hidden alcove behind a wall by to men who appear to be surprised to have found it. (9 Wands)

The cards I can't place
  • The Wheel - appears to show the change of the seasons from summer to winter
  • Hermit - an older man painting a valley scene
  • Hanged Man - a puppeteer entertaining children with his two pope marionettes (If there are two separate pope stories, this card could be linking them if the puppeteer is telling the stories of the two popes. Although one of the stories as I've written it is definitely R-rated and therefore shouldn't be told to children that young! :laugh:)
  • Ace Chalices - a well-off Mona Lisa is in a marketplace
  • 6 Chalices - a couple climbs the hillside next to a waterfall
  • Queen Chalices - Mona Lisa floats above a small pool of water
  • Ace Wands - a young man paints a forest scene
  • 3 Wands - a young couple climbs a ladder into the sky
  • 4 Wands - performers are on stage doing acrobatics and/or a play
  • 10 Wands - an older bearded man kneels on the bank of a body of water, holding his left hand in a "STOP" motion
  • Queen Wands - Mona Lisa receives a staff from an arm that appears from within an ornate box that appears within a puff of smoke
  • King Wands - we see from the canvas point of view a man painting red wavy lines onto the canvas
  • 7 Swords - a cat sees a rat that's busy eating
  • 9 Swords - I'm not even sure what I'm seeing. Six people are trapped in a picture frame, looking out at a forest scene. I see faces that express interest, disdain, happiness and shock, so I'm not sure what's going on.
  • 2 Pentacles - a well-to-do young woman pulls a medallion out of a box
  • 3 Pentacles - an armored guard blocks an old man and his mule from entering a gated compound
  • 7 Pentacles - a man sends away a woman and child from a building (I guess this could be part of the tavern storyline. The tavern owner turned away mother and child in need and his karmic justice was that his tavern got trashed.)
  • Knight Pentacles - a thief(?) gallops away from a monastery carrying a bag of money while a monk raises his hand in anger at the young man

I still haven't looked at the meanings in the LWB. Maybe I'll get a chance to do that later today.

Looking forward to input from others on my storylines and groupings. Also looking forward to seeing what storylines and groupings other people come up with.

Rodney
 

PeterS

Cross Posting

Rodney,

I am was reading my way through the One Deck Wonder posts because I am thinking of taking the challenge. But I have also been working on my own version of the Mona Lisa Puzzle.

I am torn because I really think that I need to do teh ODW exercise but I have been studying the Mona Lisa and do not feel that this is the deck to choose.

While I am excited about the Mona Lisa as a challenge and an investigation I do not think that it will be a reading deck for me. So if I am going to do the ODW I will have to put it aside.

The purpose of this post is to say that I have found your work on the puzzle insightful and well thought out.

Peter
 

rwcarter

Thanks Peter! I was starting to think that no one cared. :D Since I won't be using this deck for the Intensive Deck Study (IDS) either, any breakthroughs I don't make before 3/19-22 (I'm starting the IDS somewhere in there) won't be made until after June 19-22, when I can touch other decks again.

Rodney
 

Onyx

The Story of the Abandoned Child

The Abandoned Baby:

This story is built on the connection of a couple of cards.
3 of Swords, 3 of Chalices and the Lovers. The image of the baby in the basket connects these cards. The threes are about a woman who looks as if she is giving up a baby at the door step of a house in the middle of the night. This house is the same one that appears in the Lovers card. I believe that not only the similarity of the houses but the fact that we see both the cards from the exact same perspective is also a clarifying feature that they are the same.

Starting there I put them in this order.
3 of Swords – Woman prepares to leave the child by writing a note
3 of Chalices – Woman leaves the child at night
The Lovers -- Much later – Suitors come to court at the house. (This is very, very tentative. Time is a tricky thing in the universe)

Adding to these cards in with others there are two more cards I think fit easily in this sequence. Knave of Wands and the 10 of Chalices. Here is my sequence when they are added.

The Abandoned Baby Story:

3 of Swords – Woman prepares to leave the child by writing a note
3 of Chalices – Woman leaves the child at night
Knave of Wands – the rich lady of the house finds the child on her door step
10 of Chalices – Woman who abandons the child watches her/him grow from afar.
The Lovers -- Much later – Suitors come to court at the house.

Now if we take that these now five cards continue to build the story then we can look to add a couple of other cards, primarily from the addition of the 10 of Chalices. The Rich Lady with a red-haired child gets us Ace of Swords, 7 of Wands Also I think that in the 10 of Chalices the woman looking on, who I believe is the woman who left the child, looks just like the seamstress in the Ace of Swords and Temperance. Now adding these to the story sequence may go something like this.


The Abandoned Baby Story:

3 of Swords – The Seamstress prepares to leave the child by writing a note
3 of Chalices – The Seamstress leaves the child at night at the home of kind Rich Lady
Knave of Wands – The Rich Lady house finds the child on her door step, she adopts the child
10 of Chalices – The Seamstress watches the child grow from afar.
7 of Wands – Rich woman defends herself and her adopted child from an attack using magic
Strength – The Rich woman teaches her adopted child how to channel their own magic from within.
Ace of Swords/ Temperance – The Seamstress keeps close to the Rich Lady and her child buy working for her
The Lovers -- Much later – Suitors come to court at the house.

Now three more cards that may fit this story, but more unsure of where and how, they are the 5 of Pentacles, the 4 of Swords, and the 5 of Swords. Here is where they may fit into the story.

The Abandoned Baby Story:
4 of Swords – The Seamstress, once a diviner of magic meets a gently, powerful Rich Lady
3 of Swords – The Seamstress prepares to leave the child by writing a note
3 of Chalices – The Seamstress leaves the child at night at the home of kind Rich Lady
5 of Swords – The Seamstress is devastated by the need to abandon the child.
Knave of Wands – The Rich Lady house finds the child on her door step, she adopts the child
10 of Chalices – The Seamstress watches the child grow from afar.
7 of Wands – Rich woman defends herself and her adopted child from an attack using magic
Strength – The Rich woman teaches her adopted child how to channel their own magic from within.
Ace of Swords/ Temperance – The Seamstress keeps close to the Rich Lady and her child buy working for her
The Lovers -- Much later – Suitors come to court at the house. (This is very, very tentative. Time is a tricky thing in the universe)
5 of Swords -- The Red-Haired child grows up and sends her suitors away in a display of her magical ability

Now if we take this to be the outline of the story, then there are yet five more potential cards for the sequence. These revolve around the a Red-Haired woman. I think that this is where the story may take a couple of divergent paths. These cards are The Moon (joined with The Stars), 6 of Wands and (8 of Chalices, 2 of Pentacles, The High Priestess, these three I am pretty sure should go together.

Those cards above assume a gender for the Red-Haired child is female, and I don’t think that it is a safe assumption. There for other alternate turns in the story of the Red-Haired boy (adopted by the Rich Lady) are King of Sword, Death and then by extension 8 of Pentacles.

Another bend in the story is if the Red-Haired boy is not adopted by the Rich Lady then you can find part of that story in the 6 of Pentacle, The Empress, and for some reason, unknown to me at this time the Ace of Chalices.

Leaving out what I then think are connecting stories of the Priest’s murder, and the Man with the Sideburns, this potential story and it variants uses 25 cards from the deck.

What a puzzle!

Onyx
 

lovejay10

I think The Emperor and 7 of pentacles are in the same story , or maybe create a new story.

7 of pentacles : A man chase his wife and kids away , perhap he think they are useless to him.

Emperor : Now a man get old , he think back to the past and feel lonely. He have house , food , money....but he have no love and supported. Even a red rose on the table couldn't hekp him feshen up.