Pamela Smith as an Illustrator

Since we don't have anything written by Pamela Smith about how she created the minor arcana cards, I'm wondering just how good she was at illustrating books, which is something else she did for a living.

She was doing illustrating at a time when books, even books for adults, not only had illustrated covers, but also frequently had internal illustrations. Just how well did she illustrate the stories she was hired to illustrate?

Pamela Colman Smith - the Illustrator

The following web site (http://home.comcast.net/~pamela-c-smith/home.html) contains color pictures of all the illustrations of a couple of the books she did prior to the the RWS deck. The illustrations are in the text itself, so you can see what she was illustrating and how her illustrations interpreted the text. I hope this will give you a better idea of her abilities as an illustrator.

Hermotimus

I think this is such a subjective question that it's hard to answer. We don't have a great deal of work to judge by, the style is old-fashioned to contemporary eyes.

When she did sketches for the set design for a play by W. B. Yeats, he said something to the effect that "only Pixie knows just what I want."

She did drawings of what she saw while listening to music about which Debussy said that she had drawn exactly what he had seen when composing the music.

Will that do?

Mary

I have found a website with quite a few examples of illustration work that she did:

These are from "The Golden Vanity, and the Green Bed" -

http://home.comcast.net/~pamela-c-smith/GV1.html

and "Widdicombe Fair"-

http://home.comcast.net/~pamela-c-smith/Wid1.html

and some original watercolours...

http://home.comcast.net/~pamela-c-smith/original.html

and a reprint of her book "Annancy Stories" is available at Amazon- I presume it has her illustrations in it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Annancy-Sto...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205877189&sr=8-1

elnor

The web pages are interesting. In fact I'd already been there.

Yes, the style is old fashioned. <grin> Since the artwork, or even the concept of illustrating books for adults is old fashioned, that shouldn't be a surprise.

What I was really asking here is OPINIONS about whether she was doing a good job of illustrating the stories she worked on. I'm sure everyone here has seen paperback novel covers that had absolutely nothing to do with the stories inside the book. I'm sure that we have all seen "illustrations" where even the clothes were from the wrong period and/or the hair color was wrong.

In order to answer the question I actually asked you would have to have seen an illustration and read the story it was supposed to be attached to. I can't answer my question from what I've seen on the web page, and the web page owner admits that they haven't read the story that the illustrations belonged to that they put on their page.

The quote by Yates was very interesting, because that is an answer to my question. He obviously thought she could figure out what he was saying and make a visual representation of it.

The question is important because we don't know how much of the RWS really belongs to Waite and how much really belongs to Pamela C Smith. Did she take what he provided and run with it? And how far did she run? And what, exactly, did he provide in the way of explanations? We truly do not know.

I have or have seen pictures of most of PCSs illustration work in context. Personally I think she did a great job of illustrating other people's words. She also explained when doing her paintings to music that it was like a window opened to a scene and she had to paint exactly what was there or the window would slam shut. So she had to learn not to change a thing. That's why Debussy's remark is so important. He said that she painted what he himself had seen in his own mind when composing the music. She illustrated exactly something that wasn't even conveyed in words. The evidence and articles about her strongly suggest (if not directly state) that she was able to psychically channel intent of others through her art.

Mary

Would that not be called clairvoyance??seeing in pictures,and to see in the pictures the same as the composer is this not proof,verified in statement....Also upon reflection dip nib and ink,as evidenced in the deck, a very steady hand ,many dips into ink to continue straight lines..............and another point, a lot of artists were told what to draw,as they are still today.Overall view, a very talented and gifted girl,still in vogue almost 100 yrs later.She has our admiration and appreciation for her foresight,talent,and knowledge.
________
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Teheuti said:

I have or have seen pictures of most of PCSs illustration work in context. Personally I think she did a great job of illustrating other people's words. She also explained when doing her paintings to music that it was like a window opened to a scene and she had to paint exactly what was there or the window would slam shut. So she had to learn not to change a thing. That's why Debussy's remark is so important. He said that she painted what he himself had seen in his own mind when composing the music. She illustrated exactly something that wasn't even conveyed in words. The evidence and articles about her strongly suggest (if not directly state) that she was able to psychically channel intent of others through her art.

Mary

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That was the answer I was looking for. I read somewhere, and I have no idea where so I can't quote it, that Waite told her what the minors meant, but the illustrations we have come to expect where her idea and her work. That she took the meanings and created not just the pictures but the whole idea of pictures.

Like I said I can't remember where I read that, or even if it was an accurate statement. But if she illustrated the work of a poet who was anyting but literal and easy to read and a composer, and both the poet and the composer were surprised at the accuracy of her illustrations, we have an interesting mystery here.

Is there anything written anywhere about who had the idea of illustrating the minors. Was it Waite's idea or Smith's? After all, althought the Thoth deck has emotional minors, they aren't actually illustrated. Is it possible that she illustrated them **in error** because she didn't know any better? Is it possible that she had never seen a tarot deck?

I ask because I've been trained in art and never having seen what someone else has done can be very freeing. It can also lock you up so tight that you can't do anything at all.

Starling said:

I read somewhere, and I have no idea where so I can't quote it, that Waite told her what the minors meant

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I've never seen any definitive reference to that. I, myself, have proposed that he gave her his list of interpretations plus specific Grail myths from a book he was writing on the Grail that was published in 1909. My evidence for this appears in the _Llewellyn's Tarot Reader 2006_. But Waite also chose PCS because she was both an artist and "abnormally psychic."

Is there anything written anywhere about who had the idea of illustrating the minors. Was it Waite's idea or Smith's? After all, althought the Thoth deck has emotional minors, they aren't actually illustrated.

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The Thoth deck didn't come until almost 40 years after the RWS. It could not have been a consideration in their thinking.

It's still not clear whether the idea was originally his or hers, but I give some suggestive evidence below.

Is it possible that she illustrated them **in error** because she didn't know any better? Is it possible that she had never seen a tarot deck?

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I'm sure she would have been familiar with Tarot decks from her years in the Golden Dawn—for members used the Tarot with 'non-order methods' when someone had not been initiated into their inner workings. Waite certainly showed her decks from the British Museum including the Sola-Busca deck which was the model for several of the Minor Arcana depictions.

About the scenic Minors, Waite writes in PKT:
“The pictorial devices . . .will prove a great help to intuition. The mere numerical powers and bare words of the meanings are insufficient by themselves; but the pictures are like doors which open into unexpected chambers, or like a turn in the open road with a wide prospect beyond.”

As an additional point that many people miss: Waite made it perfectly clear that you don't have to stick with book interpretations:
“In proportion as this gift [of intuition] is present in a particular case, the specific meanings recorded by past cartomancists will be disregarded in favour of the personal appreciation of card values.”
Waite seemed to respect Pixie's psychic sense and seems to have trusted her with the Minor Arcana while, as he said, he had to spoon-feed her with many of the Majors because he wanted the esoteric symbolism to be precise.

Mary

Thank you contributors for this great thread,we've come to a better understanding,and now TRUST the interprations we receive through the cards.Before these pages one had hints of her talents,now we're confirmed..Knowledge +trust is another key,deeper we tumble,with a grin!!
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HANDJOB SLOW