Conversation regarding the Guidelines for the Golden Dawn Tradition Sub-Forum

Ross G Caldwell

Aeon418 said:
You're a master of understatement, Ross. :laugh:

Thanks. You don't know how much I appreciate that compliment.

I think a large part of the problem is that, on the surface, most of the Golden Dawn system seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Tarot. It's only when you begin to see how the Golden Dawn viewed and used the Tarot that it begins to make sense. Tarot seen as an intiatory framework, rather than a simple oracle doesn't make a whole lot of sense to some people and I'm not surprised.

I agree with you entirely, and I suspect implicitly. The GD tarot, like Enochian Chess, was a summation of their doctrine. You can't begin to understand it until you study it (say, from Regardie's Golden Dawn or Crowley's recension in The Equinox), and, of course, *practice it.* It isn't a morality *on* the cards, like the 16th century moralizers, nor de Gébelin, nor is it a tarot on a theme, whether cities in Germany, being gay, Egyptian gods, or lewd imaginings from Boccaccio (I love them all, of course) - all of these are tarot as art, as beauty, as morality or homily, but they do not claim to be an attempt at a summa of all truth (nor history either). With the GD, Tarot was transformed into a religious text with infinite dimensions, and in that form, in one way or another, it has spread all over the world.

The major difference I see today between old school and new school users of popular tarot is their approach to the content of the cards, and that approach comes down to the hermetics of tarot - whether to learn, dryly and painfully, the now old-fashioned "correspondences" - or, to try to respond to the images as images, without learning, to use them as magic mirrors. It seems to be an issue with people just starting out, because of course they are impatient - they just want to read as quickly as possible. But the GD is the source of both doorways into the hermetic tarot - they taught them as magic mirrors, inspiring divination and clairvoyance, as well as an iconographic repository of ageless (and pedantic) wisdom.

But the greatest thing is that the GD seamlessly combined them, so that by practice of their Tarot, you could be a fortune-teller as much as a mystic filled with inspired verse. And there is no difference, in the end (shhh, that's a mystery).

Ross
 

re-pete-a

MMMMmmmmm!

How's about we leave this as it is and call it the "unified field" .Through out history we see the efforts of individuals,none of them worked together but rather let all others flounder and grope.Being all one , not a single person had the way marked for others ,sure they had blinds and veils,but can you imagine if the way was marked,can you visualize the vibrational change of one set of beliefs.The space walk would be nothing in comparison.Forever separate,is that the destiny of these wizards present,even when all knowledge points to the sum of ALL. ....NOTHING IS REAL.....The fifth element,works best from nothing.
 

Scion

Ross G Caldwell said:
I agree with you entirely, and I suspect implicitly. The GD tarot, like Enochian Chess, was a summation of their doctrine. You can't begin to understand it until you study it (say, from Regardie's Golden Dawn or Crowley's recension in The Equinox), and, of course, *practice it.* It isn't a morality *on* the cards, like the 16th century moralizers, nor de Gébelin, nor is it a tarot on a theme, whether cities in Germany, being gay, Egyptian gods, or lewd imaginings from Boccaccio (I love them all, of course) - all of these are tarot as art, as beauty, as morality or homily, but they do not claim to be an attempt at a summa of all truth (nor history either). With the GD, Tarot was transformed into a religious text with infinite dimensions, and in that form, in one way or another, it has spread all over the world.

The major difference I see today between old school and new school users of popular tarot is their approach to the content of the cards, and that approach comes down to the hermetics of tarot - whether to learn, dryly and painfully, the now old-fashioned "correspondences" - or, to try to respond to the images as images, without learning, to use them as magic mirrors. It seems to be an issue with people just starting out, because of course they are impatient - they just want to read as quickly as possible. But the GD is the source of both doorways into the hermetic tarot - they taught them as magic mirrors, inspiring divination and clairvoyance, as well as an iconographic repository of ageless (and pedantic) wisdom.

But the greatest thing is that the GD seamlessly combined them, so that by practice of their Tarot, you could be a fortune-teller as much as a mystic filled with inspired verse. And there is no difference, in the end (shhh, that's a mystery).

Ross
Beautifully, masterfully put Ross! And I could not agree more emphatically.

In a very real sense what you just said above is going to be at the root of every conversation in this new forum. :thumbsup:
 

re-pete-a

Ross you talk of mirrors,have you experienced them,it?we believe they're called the Mecuric speculum,has anyone??EXPERIENCED it/them...this is the MAJICK !!This is the place to take off the armour of the ego,place oneself squarely at the mercy of the 5th element...tell us whats there???ANYONE!!???
 

Aeon418

Ross G Caldwell said:
The major difference I see today between old school and new school users of popular tarot is their approach to the content of the cards, and that approach comes down to the hermetics of tarot - whether to learn, dryly and painfully, the now old-fashioned "correspondences" - or, to try to respond to the images as images, without learning, to use them as magic mirrors. It seems to be an issue with people just starting out, because of course they are impatient - they just want to read as quickly as possible.
I'm in complete agreement with you here, Ross.

Originally an initiate of the Golden Dawn would have to progress through the Outer Order, gradually building up their own store house of correspondences, with only minimal exposure to a handful of the Major Arcana during initiation rituals. It wasn't until the grade of Adeptus Minor that the full order Tarot system was revealed. By that time the initiate would have laid a firm foundation for real work with the Tarot. This process went a step further during the ZAM work when the initiate was supposed to copy by hand and paint their own pack of cards. That's a far cry from todays "pick up and play" attitudes.

Thinking about it just now, it makes sense why Paul Foster Case's BOTA course is so slow and drawn out. He wanted the correspondences to be "absorbed" by the student, rather than just intellectually known. And he also required his students to carefully colour in their own copy of the black & white BOTA deck using the correct colour correspondences.

While I've never taken the BOTA course myself, I do know people who have. The one thing they always comment on is the slow, but methodical, pace of the course.
 

Grigori

Ross G Caldwell said:
So, maybe, "Hermetic Tarot: The Golden Dawn Tradition"

or "The Golden Dawn tradition of Tarot".

Following a post this evening from AJ, I had the thought that as "Hermetic" seems a generally acceptable word considering the options, then we only need to differentiate the forum from Dowson's deck to avoid confusion.

Trying to keep the forum title brief, and relying on the guidelines and content to flesh things out a bit, would people find Hermetic Approaches to Tarot more suitable? Combined with fleshing out the guidelines to address some questions raised in this thread.

Thanks :)
 

fyreflye

Why is this thread about colors being posted on a discussion group about a B & W tarot? It appears that putting the Hermetic as a sub category of the Thoth is causing some confusion. Could the Moderators make the Hermetic a more easily distinguished and separate discussion group?
 

Aeon418

The ambiguity of the forum name strikes again.
 

fyreflye

My point is that if I scan down through the various discussion groups and see a discussion labeled "Colors in the RWS and Golden Dawn tarots" in the Thoth discussion group and I click open the Thoth group the thread is nowhere to be found. No surprise, since the Thoth is neither the RWS nor a Golden Dawn tarot, but if I look in the RWS discussion group it's not there either. Why is the thread in the Hermetic discussion group? More to the point, why the is Hermetic group a sub group of the Thoth when the Hermetic is not even a Thoth clone?