Book T and the Astrological Signs

[Grigori]

I thought a good way to kick of the study group, would be to break things down to the most simple parts and progress onwards from there. That way if your brand new to this method, then you will be easily able to get started, and if your a bit longer in the tooth, then you can help the rest of us catch up

With that in mind, I'm going to post an introduction to how the signs are allocated to the Minor Arcana, as I understand it. We can then work out what signs are applicable to our deck, even if using one where its not illustrated on the cards. As the discussion develops we'll learn more about how this is important and can be applied, and eventually we'll be ready to start looking at how it works when the Planets and Decans come into play, which we can do in another thread in the near future. The first thing we need to do is set aside the Aces. The Aces don't get signs attributed to them, as the represent the element itself among other things. So in this thread we are working with the 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10's.

As most people know, there are 12 signs considered in astrology. In order, Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces.

This is the order starting with Aries, as the start of Spring, and the start of the year. Book T also presents the order starting at Leo, which is another astrological option. It doesn't make any difference at this level I think, so I started with Aries as its probably more familar to most of us as "the beginning".

So we have a total of 12 signs. These signs are divided up into the 4 elements, Fire, Earth, Air and Water I color co-ordinated the list above also so you can see how the elements cycle through the year, but for ease of reading later:

Fire and Wands
Aries
Leo
Sagittarius

Water and Cups
Cancer
Scorpio
Pisces

Air and Swords
Libra
Aquarius
Gemini

Earth and Coins
Capricorn
Taurus
Virgo

The Fire and Air signs (wands and swords) are considered "male" or active, the Earth and Water (coins and cups) are "female" or passive. Yin and Yang if you prefer.

There is a second way of categorising the Signs, based on the "Mode", also knows as "Triplicity". There are three Modes. Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable. Each element has a sign that fits into each of these. E.g. Cardinal Fire is Aries, Fixed Fire in Leo and Mutable Fire is Sagittarius.

Briefly, Cardinal Signs represent the start of the Element, they are rapid and short lived energy. Fixed signs are the full strength of the Element, they are as the name Fixed suggests, more stable and long lasting energy. Mutable signs are the fading of the Element, and are variable in nature. So the strength of the element starts with the Cardinal Sign, reaches it peak with the Fixed, and then fades and changes in the Mutable.

The Cardinal Signs are
Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn.
As the cardinal signs represent the start, they are attributed to the early cards, 2, 3 and 4.

The Fixed Signs are
Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus (as usually seen together on the Wheel of Fortune or World cards)
They are the centre or strongest signs, and get the centre cards, the 5, 6 and 7's.

The Mutable signs are
Sagittarius, Pisces, Gemini and Virgo.
They are the end of the Element, and so get the last cards.
8, 9 and 10's.

Pretty simple really!

So if you put all that in order and relate it to you deck we get.

2,3,4 of Wands. Aries (Cardinal Fire)
5,6,7 of Wands. Leo (Fixed Fire)
8,9,10 of Wands. Sagittarius (Mutable Fire)

2,3,4 of Cups. Cancer (Cardinal Water)
5,6,7 of Cups. Scorpio (Fixed Water)
8,9,10 of Cups. Pisces (Mutable Water)

2,3,4 of Swords. Libra (Cardinal Air)
5,6,7 of Swords. Aquarius (Fixed Air)
8,9,10 of Swords. Gemini (Mutable Air)

2,3,4 of Coins. Capricorn (Cardinal Earth)
5,6,7 of Coins. Taurus (Fixed Earth)
8,9,10 of Coins. Virgo (Mutable Earth)

I'm not sure if that is clear or not. It would be good to have a conversation about this, so we can all get the "maths" under our belts, and also learn something about what this will mean for us eventually

[Always Wondering]

Yeah. I've been waiting for this.

Your explanation was clear for me. I played with categorizing my cards some and that helped. It also helped me make sense of the astrological symbol and meaning chart I've been studying.

AW

[Always Wondering]

Here is what I am not understanding. Decans. Book T says there are thirty-six, though I thought they were the 12 planets.

I read your post on the Princesses being the Thrones of the Aces, Scion. I look forward to getting a handle on that.

[Grigori]

Originally Posted by Always Wondering

Here is what I am not understanding. Decans. Book T says there are thirty-six, though I thought they were the 12 planets.

Scion is the expert on the decans, and we can probably get out teeth into that very shortly. But the simple answer, is decans are part of the signs, not the planets.

There are 360 degrees in the zodiac circle. We have 9 cards in each suit, 4 suits on total, so 36 cards all up. So each card gets 10 degrees of the Zodiac, 3 cards make up 30degrees, which is one full sign. Each 10 degrees is called a decan. Each Decan is ruled by a different planet, but they are not planets, they are 1/3 of each sign.

[fluffy]

Similia I totally get the first post you made. I never understood when people said that a particular card was ruled by this planet or that planet etc, but your post made perfect sense (also I never knew what fixed, mutable or cardinal meant, but now that also makes sense). I still think I am going to have to read it a few times before it sinks in though.

However................. I didn't really get the Decan thing so I am hoping that this is a later chapter of this study group

I am going to print off your post and keep it for reference! BTW please let us know if you want us to read any part of the book T, or if you think it would help if we did as I downloaded it. Although I have a little bedtime reading thanks to enabler Scion (The Theology of Arithmetic).

Love Fluffy
xx

[Storm82]

wonderful that you brought up this. Im studying this at the moment

Very nice summon of the signs and elements!


my thoughts...

I have learnt it this way:

2,3,4 of Wands. Aries (Fire in the fire´s way, progressive)
5,6,7 of Wands. Leo (Fire in water´s way, regressive)
8,9,10 of Wands. Sagittarius (Fire in air´s way, varied)

Its the same system as: Cardinal , Fixed and Mutable
it seems to work in the same way

You said: "Cardinal Signs represent the start of the Element, they are rapid and short lived energy. Fixed signs are the full strength of the Element, they are as the name Fixed suggests, more stable and long lasting energy. Mutable signs are the fading of the Element, and are variable in nature. "
Im thinking:
Cardinal : the start rapid, progressive
Fixed: "fixed" is regressive (water is a passive element)
and Mutable : variable


what do you think?

[fluffy]

Originally Posted by Storm82

I have learnt it this way:

2,3,4 of Wands. Aries (Fire in the fire´s way, progressive)
5,6,7 of Wands. Leo (Fire in water´s way, regressive)
8,9,10 of Wands. Sagittarius (Fire in air´s way, varied)

Its the same system as: Cardinal , Fixed and Mutable
it seems to work in the same way

You said: "Cardinal Signs represent the start of the Element, they are rapid and short lived energy. Fixed signs are the full strength of the Element, they are as the name Fixed suggests, more stable and long lasting energy. Mutable signs are the fading of the Element, and are variable in nature. "
Im thinking:
Cardinal : the start rapid, progressive
Fixed: "fixed" is regressive (water is a passive element)
and Mutable : variable


what do you think?

I think I am confused that is why I am a beginner! Why would fixed be "regressive and water" I thought fixed could be any of the elements. Have I got it wrong?

Love Fluffy
xx

[Grigori]

Originally Posted by fluffy

However................. I didn't really get the Decan thing so I am hoping that this is a later chapter of this study group

The Decan's are actually really simple at the basic level. Once we work out what they actually are, then we can look at how they are used, as they are important when the planets come into play.

The Zodiac wheel, like all circles has 360 degrees. You can divide it up, like cutting up slices of apple pie, in lots of different ways.

If you cut it into 12 pieces, each will be 12/360 = 30 degrees, which is a full sign.

If you cut it into 36 pieces, each will be 36/360 = 10 degrees, which is a decan ("dec" meaning ten, as in a decahedron, ten sided figure etc..)

If you cut it into 72 pieces, each will be 72/360 = 5 degrees, which is a quinance ("quin" meaning 5)

Decan is really just a word that means a small slice of the zodiac wheel, 10 degrees worth of it.

That translates into the minors easily. E.g. for Aries.

Aries = 2,3 and 4 of Wands. So these 3 cards get 30 degrees of the Zodiac, or one ful sign.

This means each card actually gets 10 degree itself, which is a third of a sign, or one full decan. So the 2 of Wands gets the first Decan of Aries, the 3 of Wands gets the second Decan of Aries, and the 4 of Wands gets the third Decan of Aries.

[Always Wondering]

Originally Posted by similia

This means each card actually gets 10 degree itself, which is a third of a sign, or one full decan. So the 2 of Wands gets the first Decan of Aries, the 3 of Wands gets the second Decan of Aries, and the 4 of Wands gets the third Decan of Aries.

Well, I had to print a wheel and chart it out, but it works, Similia.
And fun.
AW

[Grigori]

Originally Posted by Always Wondering

Well, I had to print a wheel and chart it out, but it works, Similia.
And fun.
AW

Yay! I'm so glad to see someone playing with the ideas. I've also had my deck out recently and been laying it in a circle on my floor so I can see the progression. Laying it out visually like that is really useful I found.

A chart is a good way to see it. I just had a search and found this one online, where you can see each sign, divided into the decans with the associationed tarot card next to it. Its illustrated with the RWS. It will also be a good reference when we get up to talking about the planets.

This site also I remembered. It has some good definitions of the basic information on the Signs, Elements and Modes/Triplicities.