Camoin Method, Example for Analysis, MaureenH #1

MaureenH

Allrightey, Moonbow*. Thank you for offering to help me practice. You mentioned that the exchange forum is where practice readings usually take place, but I do not have a subscription. You also mentioned that if I prefer to keep it private you'd be willing to pm. I'm okay with cracking myself open right here and I think some practice right here is fine and will make it easier for me to know where I posted as long as you're willing.

I had thought for a bit that I should try to keep my comments very concise. That is not how I seem to be approaching these cards, though. Thoughts, thoughts and more thoughts bubble up. So I think I'll just blather away because that will be a more accurate depiction of my process. I'll just assume nobody is forced to read this and so won't feel responsible if anyone finds it tedious or unworthy in any way.

In my last message to you I think I mentioned how asking about the future doesn't really seem to suit me. I find myself wondering why I am feeling blocked about that. It reminds me of my inclination not to pray for a particular result. I can see acting or working toward a result, but I never really wanted to ask for something specific in a prayer and I likewise don't really have any desire to ask for specific info about the future. I want to phrase my question in such a way that I leave room for the cards to speak to me instead of leading the witness. Maybe that includes future info. It doesn't feel like I'm afraid of the future, it feels more like I'm ready for whatever comes my way, negative or positive so I don't need to strong-arm it. So, after struggling for a few days about what question to ask that really felt like a question I wanted to ask I settled upon:

What questions does the Tarot have for me? Here's what it looks like:

The Wheel (The Chariot...........Judgement...........The World)

My initial reaction is I need to concsiously try to put my reaction into question form.

Since I'm just beginning, I am not able to really read this in a sentence but before I do anything I form these thoughts:

-Could it be that through discipline I have shifted my position on the wheel that has brought me some peace and fulfillment? If so, and if kind of feels that way, I should bask in this moment before I descend again.

-What date is Kenny Garrett in Cambridge? (horn in Judgement)

-Have I incorporated the armored charioteer in my life any more since a few weeks back when it showed up reversed? It doesn't really feel like it. What part of me is expressing him in such a way that he's not reversed today?

-Why am I not running in the Boston Marathon?

Look at all the circles in this spread. The wheel, the chariot wheels, the circle of clouds the mandorla, the haloes. I like the progression from the creatures on the wheel with the top monkey holding a sword in his right paw (is there a significance to hands....the charioteer holding the scepter(?) in his left and the Judgement angel having both its hands on the horn and the World woman holding a baton(?) in each hand?) and having wings that look like curtains, to the three honest and open people in the judgement card listening to the angel with wings blow the horn (maybe Wallace Roney or Arturo Sandoval). Can I see how this reflects my life? Yes, I can. What steps should I continue to take that will keep my life heading in the direction of what I love, the people in my life, music, etc., instead of mindless strife and warfare that is sometimes so easy to lapse into and much of what's being proffered by the world in the form of actual warfare and just the general ratrace I have pretty much seceded from?

How can I blend my Chrisitan roots (gd angel wings everywhere in these cards) with whatever direction I head into? Can I recognize how it's a strength for me? Yes (begrudingly).

Why am I not outside where the grass is turning green and sky is so blue?

Do I believe in angels yet? No. And I don't like the imagery, either. I like that the woman has no crown or halo and that she is buffered from the Christian symbols yet they are in her consciousness (comfort of the familiar?)or at least included somehow. Are her legs in the same position as the Hanged Man?

Why is that lion smiling in the World card while the bull looks seasick? Why does the bull have no halo?

Well, that's my first flush. If anything else occurs, I'll plunk it here.

:)
 

Paul

AEpostMaureen.jpg


I am jumping in with a presumptive understanding of the spirit of your Question, Maureen.

You correctly finished all gazes/regards, and your layout has no reversed cards that require solutions. Well done!

The Tarot as a fortune-telling device is represented by (X-La Roue), this card is being interpreted as a Symbol, but the word "fortune" is certainly an iconographic synchronicity; you wonder what it can do for you (VII- Le Chariot). The Chariot turns the wheel; s/he is mastery of fate (symbol). [Law of Regards]. In both cards, the WHeel motif repeats [Law of Repetition]. The charioteer is a symbol of the soul incarnate.

Juxtaposed together, La Roue shows us carried by fortune. In contrast, Le Chariot shows the rider reigning the beasts and in charge. [Law of Difference/Sameness]. Thus, the Tarot cleverly reflects your conundrum of whether the Tarot may assist with answers of the future and in fact, how it can help you in practical ways in life (3+4 = 7), which is the marriage of the terrestrial world and spirit or intelligent action, the Way, the Tao. How should you operate this Tarot? The metaphor offered is, how should the Charioteer turn the wheel?

At present, you speak of Prayer, aptly illustrated by XX-Le Judgment (interpreted as an icon-- the characters are praying). What can you ask the Tarot? Synchronistically, the Camoin Method demonstrates the use of the idiosyncratic language of the querent.

Le Monde is your answer for the future. What questions does the Tarot have for you? Perhaps I may reword this mentally to mean, what can you ask the Tarot? XXI-Le Monde – anything! Thus, the Tarot is advising you to not place strictures on your questions, as you have done in the past. It is not either (X) or (VII), but both/and.

Using the Law of Extremity, we compare La Roue with Le Monde. In the first case, a hub of the wheel is the center point, it the last, you are the center point (naked! which actually means "pure sight"). The Tarot can help you stay in your Center.
:)

Now, if I made a muddied mess of your question, please advise, and we will simply reinterpret.
 

MaureenH

Paul, Thanks for taking the time to do this, and sorry for my awkward questions. I thought maybe the Tarot would understand me. heh.

I hadn't connected or even noticed the praying people in Judgement to my comments about prayer. It's so obvious once you point it out.

Does La Roue always represent the Tarot as a fortune-telling device? Or is it based on the question?

Where did you get 3+4? Three creatures + four ?

Is there a guideline for when to interpret something as an icon (people?) rather than a symbol? Or is it in addition to?

What is pure sight?

Your interpretation answers some of my questions. I especially like How should I operate this Tarot. Very clever. In exchange, I'll practice asking Tarot questions that feel awkward to me. :)
 

Paul

MaureenH said:
Paul, Thanks for taking the time to do this, and sorry for my awkward questions. I thought maybe the Tarot would understand me. heh.
No, no, no. I am paying it forward.

I hadn't connected or even noticed the praying people in Judgement to my comments about prayer. It's so obvious once you point it out.
Yes, always be open in a childlike way to see the most simplistic associations. Sometimes, oldtime Tarot training has trained us to be too esoteric.

Does La Roue always represent the Tarot as a fortune-telling device? Or is it based on the question?
The context of the question dictates how we see images.

Where did you get 3+4? Three creatures + four ?
7 in Pythagorean-speak is 3+4. The Chariot is four-square. There is a triangular nature of the image in the chariot combined with the animals.

Is there a guideline for when to interpret something as an icon (people?) rather than a symbol? Or is it in addition to?
This is a matter of what is salient (Latin, to leap out). It is a matter of pattern recognition and the context of the question...also, practice.

What is pure sight?
Seeing things without contamination from fear or hope; hope is only a clean version of fear.

Your interpretation answers some of my questions. I especially like How should I operate this Tarot. Very clever. In exchange, I'll practice asking Tarot questions that feel awkward to me. :)

What questions didn't it answer?
Let's dialogue so that we can elucidate the Method of Camoin.

Although I may be accused of being a Camoin Groupie, I would be ashamed by such behavior, but I am grateful to what Camoin has taught. Why must dead scholars like Waite and Crowley be the final word?
 

frelkins

Paul said:
Why must dead scholars like Waite and Crowley be the final word?

The words are the music to my ears. I may not be 100% Camoin/Jodo, but it's true, I am soooo looking for something beyond the Usual Suspects. ;) This is also something I like about LS decks too.
 

MaureenH

This is fun. :)

I look forward to getting back here later today when I get time to weed through my first post, and ask more questions.

After reading frelkins' post yesterday, I'm so aware of how much I don't remember to keep in mind about Camoin's Laws, too. I notice the repetition, for instance, but I'm sure I'm not processing it fully/accurately. That's another entire (or several) realm of meaning to wade through and consider. I'll have to check the other threads as I'm sure there must be something about that in those.
 

frelkins

hey maureen, actually one of the things i like about camoin is that the abstract stuff is rather minimal. the useful "laws" are just a handful, and it's really more a practical process. it's not "esoteric" and i don't have to correlate 900 flavors of qabala, egyptian ho-ha, or the picatrix with astrology.

and while i know other people here revere him, crowley creeps me out, so i like to avoid him. also, waite just seems to have ripped off several other people, mostly etteilla, so i have problems taking his hodge-podge as gospel, forgive me.

these few rules and a little numerology take us a long way. i appreciate this aspect greatly. :) generally i find simpler systems to have more power and even elegance.
 

MaureenH

Yes, simple is a good match for me, frelkins. :) Though it does look like you can disappear in there if you want to. I do look forward to finding out some more about numerology and even, gasp, astrology.

Paul, I think most of my other questions are about details of the Tarot symbolism I can familarize myself with from the myriad books floating around.

Maybe your re-phrasing of my question caught my attention. This will sound strange, but I'm struggling with what the Tarot is and how I am imagining it. Should I think of it as a thing? I guess I'll have to decide, but I'm curious about what other people think it is. I find myself thinking of it as a cross between some kind of potent, charged ether and a cast of characters like a pantheon of Gods, yet not that. What am I talking to? Who am I asking? Whoa. Anyway...

I will look at Camoin's site again to print out the laws. I see Repetition, Extremity and Regards and need to get clearer on those. Probably Solutions and Numbers, too. So, I'll get to that in the next few days. Meanwhile, I just asked another question, kind of futuristic. I hope you don't mind if I do one more thread. It includes a few questions about Camoin's method.
 

frelkins

Maureen:

The only numerology you need is if you choose to use the minors as solution cards. If not, then you ditch the Pythagoras altogether. No astrology necessary for Camoin!

As for symbols, search google books, there are a couple of encyclopedias of symbols there and you can learn the main symbols, like eagles, fleur de lis, etc. I like to use the Continuum. But keep your imagine free. The Chariot can be a fancy reference to the body carrying the soul a la the Bible, or it can simply mean, you know, your old car. Context is all.
 

MaureenH

Some day I'd like to try the minors. That's quite a ways off, I think, for me.

Thanks for that link. I'll check it out tomorrow. I actually have quite a few books, on symbols and several cheesecakey Tarot resources so far. And I honestly do have a reservoir of knowledge in my brain that seems to be seeping out somehow! There's always so much more to know, I find, and then there's re-learning what I've forgotten.

It's very funny that you should reference an old car. I just spent 2 1/2 hours washing and detailing mine at the carwash! It was like driving home in High Def!