Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

Marseilles Seekers Thread (First Exercise)

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Marseilles & Other Early Decks


 
EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar
EnriqueEnriquez  EnriqueEnriquez is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Sep 2004
Location: N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 421
EnriqueEnriquez 
Citizen

EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar
Marseilles Seekers Thread (First Exercise)


Dear friends,

I don't have many things to share, but I hope you will find the few I do have useful. During the next six weeks I hope to cover the basic aspects of what can be described as the Marseilles tarot's optical language: its rhyme, rhythm, resonance and optical patterns. We will do this by means of six practical exercises which will be accompanied by a theoretical frame of reference. The theoretical frame of reference for each weekly exercise will be found on my web site, under the "Eye Rhyme" section. But you don't need to send me questions. You only need to read these short essays and then work on the exercise I will pose you here on AT. You should post your response to the exercise under the same thread in which I posted the exercise and we will then work through some feedback. All questions are welcome and I am more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

You will notice that I make lots of references to artists, writers and poets. If the Marseilles tarot is the tarot of the image-makers, then it is within the realm of the image makers that I find the answers I am looking for. For example, since I see a tarot reading as an act of visual poetry, it is by studying poetry that I have arrived at an understanding of the tarot. If you aren't familiar with some of these names, and Wikipedia isn't responding, please ask me about these authors and I will be more than happy to tell you about them.


Our first exercise might be the most problematic one, not in therm of its difficulty, but in terms of some of the conclusions I hope to arrive at after we work on it. Today I will post the exercise and tomorrow I will post the first little essay in my Eye Rhyme project. In this specific case, it will be better if you do the exercise first, and read the essay afterwards.

The exercise is very simple, but please read through these instructions a couple of times to make sure you know what to do before you do the exercise. So, shuffle your whole deck and place it face down on a table. Put your hand over the deck and travel down in your imagination through a specific numbers of cards. Choose any number that comes to your mind. (If for example you decide to travel 20 cards down the deck, focus on that 20th card from top to bottom). You won't know which card this is. I won't know which card it is. And that is fantastic! I would like you then to describe the feelings that come to mind while you are focused on that unknown card. Please, don't try to describe the card, but only the feelings that come to your mind while you focus on it. Write it all down. After you have written it down, go through the deck and look at that card. I want you to then write down your initial reaction on seeing the card. After seeing that card, and when your initial reaction has faded away, I want you to find all possible relationships between the feelings you experienced while focusing on the unknown card, and the imagery in the card.

That's it. It is that simple.

Please, report back.

Have fun,

EE
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #1
Satori's Avatar
Satori  Satori is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,103
Satori 
Citizen

Satori's Avatar
Satori's Results to Exercise 1


Reactions to the Unseen 60th card in my Camoin Pack:
I feel a funny feeling in my stomach.
Not sure it is just worry of getting this wrong...
At first I thought: Joy.
But then realized it is joy that is also pain, like bittersweet. It is a complex emotion. There is also a hesitancy to the feeling. A feeling of fear of throwing myself too deeply into it.


First reaction to the 60th card in my Camoin pack:
V Deniers

Totally surprised to see a pip!
Because of my impressions of the unseen card I figured this would be a Major....
I thought of protection. The central disc is so lovingly protected by the leaves but even in this little nest the outside world is coming in. I felt balance, but I also felt a lack of energy, because of the walls around that center piece. The blue leaves that were touching the center coin seem a bit tentative, like a very gentle stabilizing force. I sensed a feeling of movement then...like a teeter totter, so that if you took away the other four coins the center coin becomes like the center of a compass, and the entire vine can somehow pivot on the center coin. But since the coins are there, that movement can't happen.

Further reflection of "all possible relationships between the feelings you experienced while focusing on the unknown card, and the imagery in the card".

So, the card sort of shows a center coin being protected. So I think of that feeling of protection as an answer to the fear I felt. The leaves reaching into the center, towards the coin, are like loving hands trying to comfort the center piece. I admit I also thought of a sperm and egg scenario, that some kind of fertilization could be taking place, which would move the center coin towards some kind of replication, or increase.

The outer coins seem to be past the need for total protection, so I see that there is a process that can occur. The sequence is unfinished. Growth can happen for that center coin, when it is ready. The leaves to the left and right of the center coin seem ready to pop open when the center coin is ready, I can begin to feel the next step of development....but what needs to happen for this next step to occur?

So the hesitancy to commit to the process may be what I was feeling. The hesitancy to commit to growth, to being fertilised, to allow some kind of penetration and then the splitting of the cell, the doubling of the DNA....what would it all mean? What is gained and what is lost?

The feeling of safety is so comfy cozy, that there is a temptation to remain in the known world, rather than move into the next level. But growth cannot be stifled, and the knowledge that change is imminent is a bit unsettling and bittersweet.

Edited to add:
At first I counted wrong. I tried to count up from the bottom, and looked at the 4 of Deniers. Then I counted from the top down and saw the five of Deniers. Both times I was shocked to see pip cards because the feelings I experienced were so complex that I was sure I had chosen a Major. I did not anticipate that a pip could elicit such a surge of emotion. And this is a sticking point for me with the Marseille, and really with all Tarot. I often think that the Majors are supposed to carry the weight of emotion and importance in the deck. And now I must rethink this idea.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #2
EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar
EnriqueEnriquez  EnriqueEnriquez is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Sep 2004
Location: N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 421
EnriqueEnriquez 
Citizen

EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar

Satori,

Thanks for posting so quickly!

Nicely done.

It is a good thing you feel surprised of seeing a pip, but you shouldn't be. You are surprises because we aren’t used to think of the pips as images, but they are images. When it comes to looking, we should look at the pips just as we look at the Trumps. There are lots of things to see in them.

5 of Deniers. You said:

“I feel a funny feeling in my stomach.”

I look at the 5 of Deniers in my Noblet and see a central element, like a navel, and then another four elements outstretched like limbs. As you pointed out, these leaves are protecting the central coin. Protecting the navel. Or tickling it?

At the same time, you describe a gut feeling, and the cards show us a four coins stricture that generates a fifth coin from the very center, from the ‘gut’.

“At first I thought: Joy.”

The navel is protected and the limbs reach out. Each floral element rhymes with the position of the five coins. There is expansion, as you also pointed out. A very Spring-like feeling.

Like a dance...

“But then realized it is joy that is also pain, like bittersweet. It is a complex emotion. There is also a hesitancy to the feeling. A feeling of fear of throwing myself too deeply into it.”

... or like a gun men’s duel.

The central coin is surrounded by two floral ‘creatures’. Each one of them holds two coins. They circle the central coin. It is hard to say if they are friendly or menacing. Are they protecting their coins from the central coin? Is the central coin being invited to play, or is it the subject of a playground prank? Each leaf has a golden outside and a blue inside. Curiously, what is offered to us, and to the central coin, is the blue side. Light and shadow dancing around a navel...


The main point of this exercise is to make us familiar with the principle of analogy. The tarot is an analogical machine. Any card, or any sequence of cards, can be linked to our personal experience by analogy. The important thing here is for us to have a frame of reference. In this case, we had all these feelings we experienced before actually looking at the card. In some cases, our frame of reference will be a question. In some others, our frame of reference will be our mind state. Our client also brings her mind state to the table, and her mind will draw analogies between whatever we say, or whatever she looks in the cards, and her mind state. A non-theoretical approach at the cards will always produce analogical meaning.

Our frame of reference is what tell us what to look for. Are we asking about an inheritance? Then the 5 of deniers will tell us that two sides are still disputing a small part of the state. Are we asking if our cousin Jean will find a man? Here the 5 of deniers will tell us that she is surrounded by married couples. Any advance here will be trouble! Are we asking about the results of our biopsy? The 5 of deniers will suggest that certain cells are growing.

Obviously, if we were to answer the same questions by looking at the four of denier, the answers will be different. Could you, Satori, try to do it?

- What is going on with the inheritance?

- Will my cousin Jean find a man?

- How do the results of my biopsy look?

There are several other things I want to comment on this exercise, but I will wait until other people post their replies.

Best,

EE
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #3
lark's Avatar
lark  lark is offline
Just a little prairie faerie
 
Join Date: 07 Oct 2003
Location: In the Spirit Room, Wisconsin
Posts: 8,516
lark 
Just a little prairie faerie

lark's Avatar

I feel like I'm falling..lots of red and blue.
Swoosh...swoosh... falling past metal bars.
Windy...my hair blows around and my clothes billow up as I fall.
I'm not afraid....I'm enjoying it
Observing as I fall.
There is no bottom...I don't stop.

Card #19 down ...Valet Despee

First I notice he is dressed half in red half in blue.
The metal bars look like his sword and sword holder.
He wears a cloak and it has big puffy sleeves....that I can imagine would billow quite nicely if he were falling.
My feeling of no fear, of enjoying the experience...of observing all around as I fall feels like his personality.
That there was no bottom makes me feel that he likes to go from one exciting experience to another.
That there is no end or limit to the adventures he wants to experience.
He's kind of an adrenaline junkie...
I think I understand him better...I'll remember him the next time we meet..
Wonderful lesson...thank you.

P.S. I forgot his lips...his lips stood out for me...I think they are chapped from the wind.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #4
Gavriela's Avatar
Gavriela  Gavriela is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 11 Mar 2007
Location: Sometime Anywhere
Posts: 1,280
Gavriela 
Citizen

Gavriela's Avatar

34

Forks clattering on the green linoleum, as the car’s gears outside crunch, don’t mesh, bright metal everywhere. City of Angels. Loud television. An argument. But I’m calm and strong and my arm is thrumming with power. It’s supposed to get to me, only it doesn’t. I’m peaceful. And I know the card doesn’t matter

4 Coins. I have the Rodes Sanchez, so appreciate that the cards are big on bright gold background, and it suits so well (pardon the pun).

A gold and yellow eagle on a white heraldic crest in the middle of the card. A golden crown hovers above the raptor. Four points, two wings, and two feet (are eagles supposed to have feet?) The red and white snakes of flower stalks curl towards the crest, around it.

And outside? Four blue-bordered yellow plates with flowers in the middle. Spinning. One to each point of the eagle.

Is the bird trapped, or in control, as it all revolves around him? Both? I don’t know.

What are you holding on to?
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #5
Satori's Avatar
Satori  Satori is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,103
Satori 
Citizen

Satori's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnriqueEnriquez
Our frame of reference is what tell us what to look for. Are we asking about an inheritance? Then the 5 of deniers will tell us that two sides are still disputing a small part of the state. Are we asking if our cousin Jean will find a man? Here the 5 of deniers will tell us that she is surrounded by married couples. Any advance here will be trouble! Are we asking about the results of our biopsy? The 5 of deniers will suggest that certain cells are growing.

Obviously, if we were to answer the same questions by looking at the four of denier, the answers will be different. Could you, Satori, try to do it?
I will try Professor, I will try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnriqueEnriquez
- What is going on with the inheritance?
In the center we see a shield. The two sides are getting armed and reading for war!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnriqueEnriquez
- Will my cousin Jean find a man?
As long as Jean has her shield up she will not find her man. There are four options to choose from but for some reason, she isn't really looking yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnriqueEnriquez
- How do the results of my biopsy look?
This one is tricky. But it also seems easy.
Something is blocking the cancer cells from growing. There seems to be a protective device or is there something protecting the cancer cells themselves???? I'm not sure.

This is a tough question, this last one. First of all if someone asked about their cancer cells growing I think I would panic. I am not good at health readings. And since my own Mom died of cancer, it would bring up issues for me, and I would feel emotional. This would be hard for me Enrique. Here, as a game, I can try it. I can try anything. But when the eyes of the stranger fill with hope and tears, fill with that innocence we see in our sitter's eyes, that trust, I don't know if I could join them in the soup.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #6
Satori's Avatar
Satori  Satori is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 20 Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,103
Satori 
Citizen

Satori's Avatar

I woke up thinking about this cancer question. First thought upon opening my eyes was to be thinking about the size of the shield. It wasn't big enough to cure the cancer or protect the cells from cancer....

I was thinking either the medicine/chemo isn't strong enough, or the med was just the wrong one.

Now I'm seeing the shield as the brain, as some kind of governing force in the cancer...and the cancer proliferating. But still, no sense of surety.

There was more too, something else that was in my mind when I woke up...but it is gone now.

And this has happened for me after other readings. I've gone home and thought of some small and sometimes seemingly inconsequential bit of info that I didn't think of in the reading...but that occurs later. So I always think that is for me. Not them. Just a nugget for me, something for my training as a reader.

I really feel stumped by this cancer question Enrique. It isn't a game, not trivial at this point. It won't let me go.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #7
franniee's Avatar
franniee  franniee is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Feb 2007
Location: new york, USA
Posts: 14,990
franniee 
Citizen

franniee's Avatar

23

My breathing is speeding up. I am having trouble taking a deep breath. Like when I run or when I get nervous. Heart is racing a bit too. The feeling is all in my chest.

i would think the card is a sword.

Ah Le Pendu XII

He is hanging upside down sticking his tongue at me! Going Nah Nah Nah! The tree stump on the left is blue and on the right is green and the stump portions are red, yellow, green and pale pink..... they look like christmas trees in my mind. This looks like a prank like he was trying to scare me which would make my initial reaction good because he took me by surprise and startled me. I love the outstretched fingers and the tongue sticking out of his mouth! He has a good sense of humor.

He looks like he is playing! Wants to get a reaction out of me. Well he did.
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #8
EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar
EnriqueEnriquez  EnriqueEnriquez is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Sep 2004
Location: N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 421
EnriqueEnriquez 
Citizen

EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar

Thanks Lark and Gavriela for your answers!

Lark, you said:

"I feel like I'm falling..lots of red and blue.
Swoosh...swoosh... falling past metal bars.
Windy...my hair blows around and my clothes billow up as I fall.
I'm not afraid....I'm enjoying it
Observing as I fall.
There is no bottom...I don't stop."

I have little to add. In the jean Noblet the Valet Despee is a dreamer. I can see him as a kid in a pasture, the sword “swooshing... swooshing..” over the crops... We may see him standing there, not knowing what to do with the sword he just draw, and we can perfectly imagine him falling deeper and deeper into its own musings. There is no bottom, no stop, no limit, other than fantasy’s own allure.


Gavriela, you said:

"Forks clattering on the green linoleum, as the car's gears outside crunch, don't mesh, bright metal everywhere. City of Angels. Loud television. An argument. But I'm calm and strong and my arm is thrumming with power. It's supposed to get to me, only it doesn't. I'm peaceful. And I know the card doesn't matter."

I like how -as it seems- you responded both to things that came to your mind, and things that were present in your surroundings. (Can you see the car in the 4 of deniers?) I find this section resonates specially with the 4 of deniers: "But I'm calm and strong and my arm is thrumming with power. It's supposed to get to me, only it doesn't. I'm peaceful." Although the compositions are almost identical to the 5 of deniers, the whole movement in this card is totally different. This feels more hieratic, as if the shield anchors the two floral creatures. With the 5 of deniers I am almost tempted to see the card spinning, with the two floral creatures dancing in a circular motion around the central coin. Here such movement isn't present. The creature's 'legs' are stiff, and the shield suggests a specific orientation. In the 4 of deniers "up" and "down", "right" and "wrong" are clearly expressed. This is something that gets blown away in the 5 of deniers, which makes your last phrase: " What are you holding on to?" specially meaningful.

There is something specially great about the pips: they are the only set of cards in the tarot whose order isn’t disputable. They are arranged in progressive order from 1 to 10. We can argue about the order of the trumps, and we can argue even more about the order of the court cards. But the pips present themselves in an order we understand at an experiential level, because we have ten fingers, and we have organized the experience of counting around this physical feature of ours.

The tarot is a tridimensional object. Is not a painting, nor a drawing. Physically, it exist in a continuous rearrangement. It is only at an intellectual level that it exist in perfect order. This is very useful when we are looking at a pip card, as in Satori and Gavriela’s case, because each pip completes itself in the next card of its series. The 4 of deniers looks more hieratic if we compare it with the 5 of deniers than if we look at it by itself. It also sounds lower than the 5 of deniers (and louder than the 3 of deniers). When we get to know our cards, which is not a matter of trying but a matter of doing, we can recall the change of shape occurring from one card to the next one.


Satori, you said:

"This one is tricky. But it also seems easy."

It is my hope that, if you look at the cards without preconceptions, all answers will seem easy! :-)

I agree with you. The 4 of deniers looks benign, while the 5 of deniers doesn't.

I totally understand and agree whit your reservations. Where do you stand in regard of medical questions is very personal, and very delicate. I apologize if you felt pushed towards an undesirable set of feelings. This is just an exercise. I just wanted to use your example to point out how one same card will generate different analogies depending on the question we are asking. Notice how this is different from saying: "4 means stability", and then we try to apply the idea of stability to an inheritance, to poor Jane looking for a man, and to a biopsy. What I am proposing here is less formulaic. It also ask for each reader to take responsibility for her/his own metaphors.


Two very important things that I hope to point out through this exercise are:

- To pay attention to the images in the cards, without distinctions between trumps, honors and pips. Any card will ‘talk’ to you. By means of the impressions you elicit while focusing on an unknown card I am hoping for you to try to find yourselves in the card, once you look at it. Every time we look at some cards we try to find ourselves in them, by means of a question or a concern.

- To generate an impression that manifest prior to verbal reasoning. This is the key for poetical reasoning. We look, and we get the essence of something, even if -at first- we can’t put it into words. There is a generalized tendency now about teaching to read poetry by saying: “read the poem and paraphrase it to know what it is about” this is a horrible thing to do. As poet Miller Williams would say, poetry is what you left out when you paraphrase the poem. Rhythm, rhyme, pattern, shape, color, sound, are experiential events first, verbal notions second. Rhythm, rhyme, pattern, shape, color, sound are the poem, just as they are them message in our cards. Learning how to put an experiential feeling into words may take time. The important thing is that we allow ourselves to elicit experiential feelings, or impressions. This becomes a lot easier if we are consciously aware of our frame of reference. Every time we look at the cards we are somehow repeating this exercise, for every time we look at the cards we are hoping to recognize our question or concern in the images we have in front of us.


Best,

EE
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #9
EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar
EnriqueEnriquez  EnriqueEnriquez is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Sep 2004
Location: N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 421
EnriqueEnriquez 
Citizen

EnriqueEnriquez's Avatar

BTW, I posted on the Eye Rhyme section of my site the first essay, that should wrap up some of the experiences we are having in this exercise.

EE
Need answers now? Get 50% off your first live Tarot session!     Top   #10


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.